ELEKTRA BECKUM 315 BAND SAW ISSUE

[Arnold9801]

I have the above band saw and have an issue 're the blade guides. I always get drift on the blade and have finally decided to see what's causing this. In doing so I can see that the 2 blade guides (the top ones that is) appear to be to far forward. Subsequently they are rubbing on the set of the blade. This results in unwanted wear on the outer tips of the blade destroying it's set. Now this maybe the cause of why my blades keep on drifting?

The carriage these 2 guides are on can be adjusted but cannot be moved back quite far enough to be rree of touching tge tips of thd teeth.. It's just about 4mm to far forward.

I think the only way around this is to bring the blade forward on the tyres. In watching some top guys you tubes on setting up a band saw, they say the location of the blade on the tyre means the lowest point in the bay of the teeth, should be in the centre of the wheel/tyre. For me to brjng the blade forward on the wheel to avoid the set being worn away by the guides could cause other issues?

If anyone else has this same band saw, how have you managed over this issue. The thing is I don't want to buy the replacement guides.

Any advice and some pics of your saw if possible please!

Regards

 

[marcros]

I don't have this saw, but I would move the blade forward on the wheels. it either tracks or it doesn't, and I have never relied upon getting a certain point on the centre of the wheel.

 

[Hemsby]

I do have the same saw and you need to track the blade forward on the wheels. Ideally the centre of the blade, (not the gullet) should be approximately central on the tyres.

 

[Hot stuff]

What size of blade are you getting the problem with?

 

[Hemsby]

Forgot to mention, don’t be surprised if the blade runs in different positions on the top and bottom wheel.

FWIW just looked in the manual and they do just say track “the blade” central on the tyre. No specific mention of the gullet position.

Will post some pictures tomorrow if you still need them

 

[Alexam]

Hi Arnold,
for starters, the blade you have been using is probably ruined and may not track [correctly as the teeth would have been damaged. If you are using a wide blade, you will not get the teeth gullet in the centre of the top wheel, but certainly back enough to set up the guides correctly and as already mentioned, the position on the bottom wheel is not important and will not be in the same line. The following information may help you, but do come back with as much information as has been asked for. I hope you have Tuffsaw blades?

GET THE BEST TUNING FROM A BANDSAW 'Alex Snodgrass of Carter Industries has an excellent video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbZqWac0jU on a tune up method that works well. His updated version also here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxVyKsbuwZQ
The following video may help some owners with a Record BS400, but it is similar to most machines blade changes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-aHHxEKw6g

Blades can run and cut without any guides whatsoever (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SHG3R2mEMM) as long as the machine is tuned correctly. This is how the blade should be running BEFORE the guides are brought into play on your machine, so that they can 'bump back' the blade should it wander, so please don't get guides near the blade before you know it is running clear and staying in the same place.

CHECKING BLADE TENSION - Flutter test Video's -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chyo9chuwJs and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8zZuDosSy0

Tuning a bandsaw is only that and nothing else. If you really want to get the very best use of your bandsaw on an ongoing basis, then the Steve Maskery DVD's will show you far more and they are a real investment that you should own. http://www.workshopessentials.com/shop/ '.
BUY BEST BLADES FROM ..... http://www.tuffsaws.co.uk/

Whenever you have put a blade on a bandsaw, ask yourself the following questions:-
....... are you managing to get the blade running freely and central on the top wheel ( without guides or rear bearing near the blade ) with the gullet of the teeth in the centre of the top wheel ? The exception would be with wider blades, as 1/2" and wider may not sit 'centred' on the top wheel).
That's the first priority before closing in guides and thrust bearings. The blade will not be in the centre of the lower wheel as the manufacturer allows the top wheel to be adjusted and tilt to allow tuning.
Is the blade running vertical 90° to the table alignment, front and back as well as side to side?
Once the guides and bearings have been brought to the correct position, (not touching when the blade runs freely) is the blade remaining where it should be when run under power and switched on and off checking several times ?

Are you sure that the tension is correct, or as near as it can be. Each blade could be different, even if it is the same depth, so needs to be checked whenever changing blades.

If all these things are correct, then you should get a true cut unless you are trying to cut the wood too fast and it's filling the teeth with sawdust and pushing the blade out of line. Do check to see if teeth are damaged in any way.
Finally, if you have used the blade before, make sure the teeth are clean, as sawdust will stick in the teeth gullet. Cleaning with a wire brush will result in a far better cut before starting a new job, but certainly on a regular basis.

Hope it helps.

Malcolm

 

[Arnold9801]

Huge Thanks for your replies and advice. You have highlighted where I’m going wrong regarding the position of the blade on the top wheel. Will have another go tomorrow and bring the new blade forward t9 avoid those guides.

On the bottom guides, it has two metal bars. I read that they have to just touch the blade. Is that correct? They are a different type of guide altogether compared with the top two.

Some pics woud be great and how much do you pay for a tidy blade and where do you get yours from?

Regards

 

[Hemsby]

Do you have the E/B instructions? If not I can email you a copy. It is not brilliant but may be of some use

 

[Alexam]

Huge Thanks for your replies and advice. You have highlighted where I’m going wrong regarding the position of the blade on the top wheel. Will have another go tomorrow and bring the new blade forward t9 avoid those guides.

On the bottom guides, it has two metal bars. I read that they have to just touch the blade. Is that correct? They are a different type of guide altogether compared with the top two.

Some pics woud be great and how much do you pay for a tidy blade and where do you get yours from?

Regards

Hi Arnold,
There are side guides and Thrust Bearings ( the ones that stop the blade from moving backwards when cutting.

When you start to tune your bandsaw, the side guides and thrust bearings must be well away from the blade until it has been adjusted for position and it is 'stable'. In other words, will not move forward or back when the blade is powered up - just stays put in the position you have given it. THEN and only then, you need to adjust the side guide and thrust bearings to be 'just off touching' as show by Alex Snodgrass in his video. You should then be ready to cut.

If you change blades at any time, even with the same thickness blade, start the tune-up from scratch as the same blade may be a mm or so different, which could throw the tuning off.
Malcolm

 

[Arnold9801]

Do you have the E/B instructions? If not I can email you a copy. It is not brilliant but may be of some use

That’s part of the issue! I had them but in putting them somewhere so safe so long ago, i can’t find them! That would be great if you could email them to me.

Will pm you.

Regards

 

[Ttrees]

I must admit not being able to get the darn thing to cut correctly.
I have only allocated a no 5 plane to the shed, so I will be able to put surfaced timber
through the machine, and give it a better test.
Just having a rough block plane before hand.
I have done some work to the machine before.
The base and the upper guides.
The jacking (lower wheel adjustment) must have stripped before as there's nuts welded on to the "housing?" for the shaft.

The only thing thats missing is the lower thrust.
I'm of the opinion that you should not need any guides atall as they're only an assistance, hence why I have a large saw
in the workshop.

The saw have does have a stout frame though
I wonder what would give if you replaced the tension rod with a larger one ...
they have a lifespan ...not too long! I guess
Would the wheels give in?

I must have at it again ,it's not like I'm trying to cut 2" oak or anything :lol:

 

[Hemsby]

Although these guides are aftermarket the blades positions were relative in the original E/B guides.

This shows the position of a ½ inch blade on the top wheel (on the bottom wheel the teeth are at the front edge of the aluminium)

Top right

Top Left

Bottom right

Bottom left

Bottom Center


Hope you can see the gullet position relative to the guide bearings. the rear thrust bearings are set close, but not touching, to the rear of the blade edge so the blade is unable to move back and allow the tooth set to get trapped in the bearings.

 

[Arnold9801]

Although these guides are aftermarket the blades positions were relative in the original E/B guides.

This shows the position of a ½ inch blade on the top wheel (on the bottom wheel the teeth are at the front edge of the aluminium)

Top right

Top Left

Bottom right

Bottom left

Bottom Center


Hope you can see the gullet position relative to the guide bearings. the rear thrust bearings are set close, but not touching, to the rear of the blade edge so the blade is unable to move back and allow the tooth set to get trapped in the bearings.

Hemsby....that’s not the 315 you got is it? The reason I ask is because mine hasn’t got the bearings underneath.

 

[Hemsby]

Yes it is the 315 but as I said the guides are “aftermarket“ (replacement) The complete kit cost £65

 

[Arnold9801]

Yes it is the 315 but as I said the guides are “aftermarket“ (replacement) The complete kit cost £65

My apols!

 

[Hemsby]

No probs
The only reason I replaced the complete guide assemblies was due to the upper guide brackets needing continual repair due to their age resulting in fatigue fractures of the castings. Their actual operational function was fine.

You still have the original lower guide assembly (2 square side guides )

I have found this setting procedure works very well on my E/B

With all the guides clear of the blade, tension and track the blade. Then both upper and lower guides need to be set the same.

Side guides just clear of the blade and set back behind the gullet and tooth set. The rear thrust bearings just clear of the blade. This should be done while just rotating the top wheel by hand. When you are happy all is well run the machine and check that none of the bearings/guides are in contact with the blade.

You can experiment with the side guide clearance a bit but the rear thrust clearance does need to be close. You can appreciate that a large clearance will allow the blade to be pushed back while cutting possibly allowing the gullet/tooth set being forced between the side guides

Hope this does not sound condescending

 

[Capnbirdseye]

I've got a similar problem with poor castings for the 315 and this thread gave me the idea to try and make replacements from Aluminium.
I have an ex school small Emco milling machine which I bought decades ago so I brushed off the cobwebs and had a go.
Here is a photo of the first part I made which is the main bracket that all the rest of the lower castings bolt on to, the slot is where you move the blade guide assembly forward & back, the part that this fixes to is another small casting which fits direct to the Aluminium sliding part that you raise to widen the height.
Both of the parts where the screws grip have now broken off so that's the next job, I have 2 of these machines from when I worked as a modelmaker so the unbroken part is from my other machine which I can use to copy.