They realise we are so dependant on oil and it's byproducts that unlike many addictions we cannot just stop without collapsing so much we have spent decades building. The changes needed are much deeper than what many seem to think and will require a total change in lifestyle that will need to end the throwaway society and economies dependant on materialism.
Electric vehicles
- Thread starter Woodchips2
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That seems to be your position not mine.
As supported by DoT, AA etc. my use case is the normal situation and relevant to the vast majority of people. At no time have I said long distance trips are not done simply that they are the exception and basing your entire argument against EV on the premise of a corner usage case is the least scientific stance you have taken in this thread. You seem to be intent on relying on exceptions and straw man arguments to make your case.
The reality is the majority of people could switch to EV with little inconvenience, in fact added convenience for a large proportion.
If you actually do drive 600 miles a day then feel free not to buy an EV. You still have that choice. By 2035, when sale of new ICE stops, there are likely to be fusion powered flying cars available to suit your use case. I’m sure I saw a documentary about that at some point. It was called back to the future I think.
DrPhill
Cyber Heretic
So the choice is to begin controlled change of our societies and cultures, or wait until uncontrolled change is forced upon us by one or more of the consequences of our current system. I prefer the adult version myself.
Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
You've got it! Well done!
That's where the battery EV comes into its own. Short journeys on demand, technically simple batteries never far from a charge point.
https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/dairy/m...leet-of-electric-floats-to-500/592461.articleElectric luggage floats used to be common. Extend that a bit - electric taxis, scooters etc. for hire and /or self drive
https://www.nationalgrid.com/storie...s/surprisingly-long-history-electric-vehicles
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And get a car to the station and a car from the station. A study some years ago worked out that if all the nation's longer distance freight was moved by rail 93% of trucks on the road would still be on the road getting the goods to and from stations.
Jacob
New Luddism. Wake up and resist.
They are called "taxis" Don't you have them in Cornwall?
Or public transport?
Probably not true. But if true then a good idea because low cost/range/tech EVs would do the job.
Yes agreed. Average weekly mileage in the UK has steadily been going down. The last figure I read was just 142 miles per week.
worn thumbs
Established Member
I have considerable doubts about trams/trolleybuses being the answer.Not because they don't work but because of the reality of city life;what happens when the road is being dug up?At the very minimum it means that a stretch of the route can't be used and while it may be feasible to station a tram at either end of the disruption,there will be a zone with no transport.I also wonder about high voltage cables above busy streets.Do they disrupt mobile phone signals?What kind of an impediment are they when the fire brigade comes along to dunk an overheating car in the mobile water tank that our Dutch friends have found to be so effective?I don't see a HIAB arm and a power line coexisting in some busy areas.
It actually does make a degree of sense to use battery buses as they are confined to a limited region and can divert as needed.They also have the weight capacity to carry the battery pack.I believe efforts are ongoing to develop mechanical parts to cope with all the torque that such hefty electric motors deliver.I have heard reliable accounts of the noises made by pre-existing differentials being fed such loads and subsequently being towed away for repair.Robust components aren't a huge problem in themselves but it is another element of the evolution.
Public transport is nigh non existent and taxis unreliable.
They are already using them.
https://new.abb.com/news/detail/796...-transition-to-all-electric-mining-operations
Then there’s this.
https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/...-electrified-road-for-evs-to-charge-while-dri
If trams are an answer, why don't all cities and major towns and have them already? They've been around for 140 years.
Ask
Busses and more flexible. If it wasn’t for all the cars getting in the way dedicated bus lanes through our cities would be a great solution
OldGreyDog
Established Member
I don’t feel ready for an EV at this time either, notwithstanding that my mileage has reduced by about 20% over the past three or four years and my average journey is about fifty miles (25 each way), and one place (one only) that I visit has a couple of charging points. While I have a private driveway and there is a power point on the inside of a wall facing it there are still several reasons why I don’t think an EV would suit me presently.
Firstly we frequently, on a whim, head off for a 200 or more miles day out in East Anglia, nearly always to the coast, and I do not want to spend time finding and waiting for a recharge. Recharge points are few and far between in the rural areas we visit - I have checked.
Secondly I insure our car for one of our daughters in case her car is off the road for any reason. She spends a lot of time at a partners home which is a flat thats about 100 metres from their car park, which has no power point. She is a big mileage driver and works odd hours, very early or very late.
Thirdly, the additional cost of a fully electric car would take quite a few years to balance out against the cost of an equivalent size/type car with an IC engine.
Fourthly, I recognise battery technology is continually improving, and fast, so what is available now may well be obsolete and have little residual value in a couple of years time.
All said i’m not opposed to EV’s, they are ideal for some folk, but not for me, not yet anyway.
As it is I sold my diesel car about 8 months ago and took a gamble and bought a small self charging Hybrid SUV as a replacement - chosen mostly because manufacturers have dropped diesel options from their smaller cars and i’m not used to the greedy fuel consumption of petrol only cars. It was a bit more £££ than a petrol only car, but I gambled on the fuel economy matching our old oil burner.
Warm weather mpg surprisingly bettered that of our former diesel car, and while its dropped significantly now the weather has turned colder (engine runs more to power heater/lights/ac and to keep itself warm) I reckon that it will at least match the old diesel car over a full calendar year. I felt a bit cornered into this choice at first, but its very nice to drive and the auto’ transmission makes journeys very relaxing. I was planning on going auto’ even if I had bought a petrol or diesel only car anyway.
Firstly we frequently, on a whim, head off for a 200 or more miles day out in East Anglia, nearly always to the coast, and I do not want to spend time finding and waiting for a recharge. Recharge points are few and far between in the rural areas we visit - I have checked.
Secondly I insure our car for one of our daughters in case her car is off the road for any reason. She spends a lot of time at a partners home which is a flat thats about 100 metres from their car park, which has no power point. She is a big mileage driver and works odd hours, very early or very late.
Thirdly, the additional cost of a fully electric car would take quite a few years to balance out against the cost of an equivalent size/type car with an IC engine.
Fourthly, I recognise battery technology is continually improving, and fast, so what is available now may well be obsolete and have little residual value in a couple of years time.
All said i’m not opposed to EV’s, they are ideal for some folk, but not for me, not yet anyway.
As it is I sold my diesel car about 8 months ago and took a gamble and bought a small self charging Hybrid SUV as a replacement - chosen mostly because manufacturers have dropped diesel options from their smaller cars and i’m not used to the greedy fuel consumption of petrol only cars. It was a bit more £££ than a petrol only car, but I gambled on the fuel economy matching our old oil burner.
Warm weather mpg surprisingly bettered that of our former diesel car, and while its dropped significantly now the weather has turned colder (engine runs more to power heater/lights/ac and to keep itself warm) I reckon that it will at least match the old diesel car over a full calendar year. I felt a bit cornered into this choice at first, but its very nice to drive and the auto’ transmission makes journeys very relaxing. I was planning on going auto’ even if I had bought a petrol or diesel only car anyway.
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OldGreyDog
Established Member
I understand that, but not everyone lives in a large town/city. I never have, and never, ever, will… Public transport in our area comprises the railway, essentially to London and back, and its very rare for me to go there.
Our bus services are very limited, somewhat unreliable outside of commuting times, and small villages and hamlets out in the countryside are all but inaccessible by bus without at least two or three changes of route, making such journeys impractical. I understand that its not viable to run these routes by bus - but these are the only places I want to visit.
Its horses for courses and what works well for city dwellers does not work for country bumpkins like myself. As such a private car, owned outright for our own use is perhaps the last ‘luxury’ I would give up due to health or financial constraints.
Agreed, I think for the vast majority of motorists an EV is a practical proposition. Some though will still have doubts about the rare occasions when they do make longer journeys. The number of public chargers is going up though and charging times are coming down. It’s just the price gouging of some companies that spoils things. They need to be careful though because Tesla are talking about installing large underground batteries for some of their network which means they can store energy at night when the electricity is cheaper and then offer it to their customers at a more competitive rate. There is talk of 500 and 600 mile range batteries in the near future but I doubt many motorists will be prepared to pay the extra cost and they simply don’t need it most of the time.
There is a guy on YouTube I think who converts ICE cars to EV’s . He converted a Jenson I think and due to the gas guzzling engine it only had a range of about 200 miles when new. After conversion it ended up with about the same range and performance, just half the cost to run!
Perhaps this is the answer https://beta.slowways.org/user/waylist/verify-me-routes/9815
Tongue in cheek of course. I live in a small village so appreciate the challenge.
The problem we all have is seeing our own situation as the standard to determine if something works or not. I completely agree a private, or shared ownership car, will remain the best solution for those in less common situations. Busses, trains etc work well in cities and large towns, exactly the places where private cars are a problem.
Could not Autonomous transport on-demand work in all areas? Once available they should be much cheaper than a minicab. I’ve known several people without a car over the years that would have benefited from something like this. Not quite here yet but perhaps on the way.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-laws-to-safely-roll-out-self-driving-vehicles-across-british-roads#:~:text=As%20announced%20in%20the%20King's,with%20safety%20at%20its%20core.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-laws-to-safely-roll-out-self-driving-vehicles-across-british-roads#:~:text=As%20announced%20in%20the%20King's,with%20safety%20at%20its%20core.
bilboburgler
Established Member
Not only is there consensus in the scientific community but there is consensus in the UN. Even the Koch brothers (deniers) hired some denying scientists to review the data and had to be informed, "it's real". The only people who don't believe either lack scientific ability or prefer to think that "it cannot be real". If you really don't want to believe the earth is round you can still believe in a flat earth, but it is akin to a religious belief not anything based on science.
Failing to do anything about climate change is even stranger. Just irresponsible.
bilboburgler
Established Member
In the USA the Ford company bought them up and closed them down, in the UK the oil industry used finance to close them. This is not a level playing field, the planet haters have more money.
RogerS
Established Member
'Little inconvenience" ? That's crazy. How about enough charging points across the country for those without private drives ? I don't call that 'little inconvenience".
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