Ebay. Sharp practice or good selling practice? Stayset No.3

[Bm101]

Just wondered what you all thought of this. I won't post a link in case I break any forum rules.
To be clear, I'm not a massive ebayer, although I've learnt a bit since I started. In all honesty most of my experience has been very pleasant when buying used tools, with good communication, etc. Pretty much, nice people. Generally a good experience all round.
I've been looking at planes lately. Quite a lot. Quite often I'll add a plane to my watchlist I know I won't win or even bid on for a variety of reasons. To get a feel for average price/condition etc then I'll sit back and over the course of a few weeks I'll have a fairly good idea of valuations versus quality.
Anyway following a recent thread I learned about Record StaySets. (Thankyou Vann), Ah ok. So I'm having a look, bumbling about as I tend to do and I see this SS number three and it looks to be absolutely mint. Unused. Don't even bother bidding it's going to go for far more than I can afford or want to pay. Even I know that much, but I'm interested.

Anyway. So it starts at a 99p minimum. The winning bid is £88 but the item has now been relisted. This is where I get a little confused. The starting price for the newly relisted plane? £80.
Can someone clear it up. Has the seller revaluated the price and bid against themself (via an agent/mate/relative) to relist?

I have my own theories, tool collector illuminati conspiracy theories :shock: but I'd be interested to hear what you think.
Cheers as always,
Chris.

PS, If you were to search 'Vintage Record No 3 Stay Set Plane' on ebay there's a chance it might come up . Some of you might even want to bid on it. I'd just be interested to find out what you thought about the pricing thing? I personally would rather live by my word but that is why I'm not richer than I am. But I sleep well, even in my rubbish cheap bed.

 

[D_W]

There have definitely been proxy bidders on ebay in the past, and I'm sure there are now.

The only thing you can do to separate yourself from it is decide what price you want, put it in a snipe service and then forget about the item.

I have always ignored second chance offers for that reason. Figuring that if someone outbid me the first time and didn't buy, it may have been the seller who did it.

To decide what I think is reasonable on a snipe service, I search ebay for completed auctions that have sold items, and then go from there. If just looking for entertainment, I view auctions that are ending in the next day, and newly listed items that are buy it now only. Most of the time, there isn't much reason to look at anything in between that.

If completed auctions are out there in volume and the average for something is way higher than I'm willing to pay, then I usually don't bid.

Another reason I like the snipe services is because you can bid on 5 things at once without actually having to bid, and then go empty all of the snipe bids if you win one. If you place a bid on ebay, you're stuck. Even if you get lucky and buy something low, the cost of buying and reselling often isn't worth anything due to shipping costs and ebay fees.

 

[Paul Chapman]

The only difference between a Record StaySet plane and an ordinary one is the cap iron. If you want the benefit of a StaySet plane, a cheaper option would be to buy a StaySet (or two piece) Clifton cap iron from Thomas Flinn & Co and fit it to an existing plane http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/aca ... ml#SID=454

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Jacob]

Who knows. Maybe he was let down. Maybe he thinks he can get more if he tries again.
Personally I wouldn't bother with it as it looks heavily worked over; obviously not "in original condition" as he claims. He may be a . and have spoiled it in some way. I'd rather have it in original condition - unmolested by twerps!

 

[bugbear]

Just wondered what you all thought of this. I won't post a link in case I break any forum rules.

Anyway. So it starts at a 99p minimum. The winning bid is £88 but the item has now been relisted. This is where I get a little confused. The starting price for the newly relisted plane? £80.
Can someone clear it up. Has the seller revaluated the price and bid against themself (via an agent/mate/relative) to relist?

If you look at his previous items (click on other items by this seller, then "completed listings", he's done this before.

I'm just not quite sure what "this" is.

But he sells an item, and then it sells again, 5 days later.

BugBear

 

[D_W]

Who knows. Maybe he was let down. Maybe he thinks he can get more if he tries again.
Personally I wouldn't bother with it as it looks heavily worked over; obviously not "in original condition" as he claims. He may be a . and have spoiled it in some way. I'd rather have it in original condition - unmolested by twerps!

Agree - lots of pitting that was lapped or buffed off part way, but the pits are still there. A heavily cleaned plane that was previously rusty. A bright casting with pitting remnants masquerading as a plane in great shape is sort of an ugly thing.

 

[Bm101]

Thank you as always gents. Just struck me as entirely dubious. Whatever next. He'll be offering up statements that he is currently not benefiting from relisting items for sale on ebay nor will do in the future.... Did he in the past? Deafening Silence....sheesh. Whatever next? Lying self serving politicians? Whodathunkit?
I got an oldish Stanley 3 that looks in good clean nick without being 'done up' the other day. See I'm learning! :| A bit... Paid £30 give or take a few pence. More than boot fair prices o/c and more than I'd like but when I measure that against my time, according to the description it won't need a lot of work. Live in hope. Doing 6/7 day weeks at the moment. Between that and the kids I'd rather get a plane that hopefully just needs a sharpen so I actually get some time to use it rather than do a derust and all that. Oh well I'll take my chances.
Thanks again fellas.

New boy:

 

[Hatherton_wood]

Not an early one anyway and "done up" Best forgotten

 

[D_W]

I'd give $40 over here (where there are stanleys in droves) any day of the week were I in need of one. Not far off from what you paid.

If the cap and iron are in shape, they can cleanly plane anything that can be planed, and the comfort level and ease of use are above many other planes offered for more money.

 

[ED65]

I think that's £30 very well spent there, yes it's more than you'd usually spend at a car boot but how long would you hunt before you found a no. 3 in this shape? Ignoring how cheaply you might get a plane elsewhere and just look at it as the price you paid for a tool of its ilk, think about what a plane of equal build quality (and looks) would go for new... total bargain is what that is.

Obviously just the one pic to go on but I'd be surprised if it took more than a quick sharpen to get that up and running. And I mean quick, like two minutes' work.

 

[Woodchips2]

Here is the item http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Recor ... SwGYVW~Bkr. The seller states 'reselling due to time waster' and he's got a 100% feedback.

Regards Keith

 

[Bm101]

Keith, I wasn't trying to start a witch hunt which is why I left out the link. Just asking the advice of more experienced ebayers because it concerned me generally with buying on ebay. Some rules to abide by if you like. I wasn't trying to single out this particular seller by any means.

Regards
Chris

 

[Woodchips2]

Hi Chris, it's not a witch hunt and you raise some good questions to make people aware of the E-Bay minefield. I posted the link because there were comments about the condition of the plane which you can see if you hover over the pictures to zoom in. I've bought and sold on E-Bay and only ever had a couple of problems which were easily resolved but I know of several people who have had bad experiences that would put you off for ever.
Regards Keith

 

[MarkDennehy]

Here is the item...

Hm. Frog date doesn't match the blade date on that one according to the record planes site...

 

[Bm101]

Out of interest, I wonder what the more knowledgable think, at what point does an old tool become a fake? And I'm not talking about that particular SS no 3.
I know I'm just starting to walk a path well trod by many before me. The rub is that when you start out a plane is a plane is a plane. Then you learn a little more. Far from all planes being equal you soon realise that not even planes made by the same makers are equal. Older planes are generally better than newer ones as I understand it (I don't include high end modern planes in that obviously). So at what point does a plane become a fake. When you describe it as something it's not and set out to deceive? Replace a cap iron? Where there's brass there's muck. No surprise there let's face it. That number 3 I got was tested out this morning. Needs a sharpen but other than that it works fine at least in my hands. Someone more experienced might know better. But it was never described as anything other than it was. But it's clearly been (well) restored and we're not talking faking Rembrandts here. It was 30 quid. It works, and I'm very happy with it.
Just out of interest, when you see tools going for 2-3-4 hundred notes and more it has to go on. I'd be interested to hear what old hands have to share. I'm never going to be after buying collectors items but I'd be intrigued to learn more about this if anyone wants to share. I find it a bit more fascinating than I probably should. :shock:

This thread is probably going down a well worn route thinking about it but you never know till you ask. While we're on the subject, if anyone's interested I have a weird looking plane for sale I found in a local church bazaar. It's probably a duffer, and seems to have been stamped with the name of the last owner. One Karl Holtey. He's done it pretty well tbf. It's not a Record or a Stanley so its probably rubbish. It has a big lump of wood as a handle. Sheesh. Some people don't have a clue eh? I'm after about £15.

 

[n0legs]

So at what point does a plane become a fake.
.

Good question, I look forward to some further comments.

But, sticking my oar in I'll leave you with this.
A close friend has a series 1 RS Turbo, which to all intents and purposes is 100% original and perfect.
Except, two years ago (maybe two and half years ago) it was stripped to a shell and totally rebuilt. Painted inside and out, new metal where needed. New suspension, original spec, and a whole boatload of other bits and bobs.
It definitely had a new rear quarter panel over 15 years ago (I was in the car when he crashed it), it had the drivers door re-skinned, rear light, inner arch, rear bumper end cap and a few gallons of paint.
Is it now still original? It's not a fake for sure, but kindly and carefully repaired and restored. Would the same apply for a tool?
Just wondering :lol:

 

[Monkey Mark]

A little off topic but I know two people (separate un related people) who both used to get friends to knock up the bids on items they were selling if they weren't getting what they wanted or simply had them join in the bidding at the end to nudge it up a bit.

I also almost fell foul of someone trying to do the same. I got offered the second chance thing. After a little looking through the sale history it was obvious they had someone or a second account that they regularly used for the purpose of increasing the values.

Sly tactics.

 

[n0legs]

A little off topic but I know two people (separate un related people) who both used to get friends to knock up the bids on items they were selling if they weren't getting what they wanted or simply had them join in the bidding at the end to nudge it up a bit.

I also almost fell foul of someone trying to do the same. I got offered the second chance thing. After a little looking through the sale history it was obvious they had someone or a second account that they regularly used for the purpose of increasing the values.

Sly tactics.

I've spotted that as well MM, really pssss me off.
If you've got a figure in mind for an item on sale, do a BIN or set a starting price. Just greedy people is my guess.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

So at what point does a plane become a fake.
.

Good question, I look forward to some further comments.

But, sticking my oar in I'll leave you with this.
A close friend has a series 1 RS Turbo, which to all intents and purposes is 100% original and perfect.
Except, two years ago (maybe two and half years ago) it was stripped to a shell and totally rebuilt. Painted inside and out, new metal where needed. New suspension, original spec, and a whole boatload of other bits and bobs.
It definitely had a new rear quarter panel over 15 years ago (I was in the car when he crashed it), it had the drivers door re-skinned, rear light, inner arch, rear bumper end cap and a few gallons of paint.
Is it now still original? It's not a fake for sure, but kindly and carefully repaired and restored. Would the same apply for a tool?
Just wondering :lol:

Trigger's broom?

 

[n0legs]

Trigger's broom?

Good man, good man =D> =D> yea Trigger's broom :lol:
Utter class :lol: