Dust using hand tools?

[LFS19]

I was wondering what sort of dust we're dealing with when using hand tools - that is, are dust masks and so on required when using a hand saw as they would using a powered miter saw?

From what I've seen on YouTube videos regarding the use of hand tools, protection is rarely seen, and often openly dismissed when he or she is not using power tools.

I was wondering, if it is so, what separates power tools and hand tools in regards to the dangers of dust.
Obviously operations like sanding and routing are heavy with the dust, but what about table/chop sawing in relation to hand sawing?
Are the microns smaller and so more dangerous when using powered saw tools?
Is it simply that the high speed motors of powered tools kick the dust into the air to a much greater extent? (Like powered sanding as opposed to filing or manuel sanding)

I know of course that power tools kick out allot more dust in general, but if the dust is so bad for you, would it not be better to wear protection anyway, even if it's presence is lessened when using hand tools?

Thanks

 

[dzj]

An extractor fan in the warmer months and a dust filter when the heating is on should be enough.
There will always be some amounts of dust in the air and in spite of this, I've never heard of anyone
wearing a dust mask constantly in the shop.

 

[sunnybob]

wood dust is a lung destroyer. End of story.
The bad part is that its the very fine dust you cant see that is the most dangerous.

If your head is bent over the work then you really should be wearing a mask. Its a bloody nuisance, but you really dont want COPD, which is just as bad as emphysemia, asbestosis, black lung or any other of those life changing illnesses.
The reason you dont see it on a tube video is because they cant talk to you while wearing a mask. Plus of course there are always the "it will never happen to me" brigade

I watched a man woodturning on a lathe without a mask, It was cold, and there was an electric heater at his knees. Standing behind him I could see a constant cloud of fine dust coming off the lathe, meeting the hot air, and rising straight across his face. He could not see that dust, and yes, he does have breathing problems..

 

[Jacob]

Not much dust from hand tools until you get to sanding. Machines are the problem.

If there is any dust the heavy stuff may reach the floor but the fine stuff settles everywhere. I've found the only way to dislodge it is with a ******** - an old vacuum cleaner plus pipe and nozzle which blows. I leave the dust extractor on while I'm doing it and then vacuum the floor. You can feel the difference after a good blow out.

I've been wondering about the Record air filter - are they value for money, cost much to run (replacing filters etc)?

 

[sunnybob]

depends what hand tools, stanley knife, hammer and chisel, not so much, planes, a little bit.
Handsaw, oh yes, thats dangerous dust.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

All operations on wood create dust.

As has been said, as a general rule, the smaller particles are more dangerous (and harder to see without suitable sunbeams!) than the larger ones. Duration/frequency of exposure is another key factor.

The impact of the dust also depends on the nature of the wood. As a general rule, the more exotic/beautiful the wood, the greater chance of allergy/danger, but even beech wood dust is considered carcinogenic (according to the German instructions with my table saw). There are some types of cancer of the nose/sinus which are considered to be occupational hazards of woodworkers.

Obviously if the timber has been treated in some way that's important too. I was handplaning some tanalised spruce (an otherwise low-risk species) yesterday, and created a lot of fine dust besides the shavings. I wore a mask.

Another point is that many types of timber (e.g. spalted beech/birch) contain mould spores which themselves can cause harm.

These kinds of risk are hard to quantify - it's a numbers game after all. However, respiratory disease is no fun and precautions are easy to take.

Cheers, W2S

 

[ED65]

I was wondering what sort of dust we're dealing with when using hand tools - that is, are dust masks and so on required when using a hand saw as they would using a powered miter saw?

I'd have to say this would generally be a no.

what separates power tools and hand tools in regards to the dangers of dust.

The amount of and fineness of the dust.

I know of course that power tools kick out allot more dust in general, but if the dust is so bad for you, would it not be better to wear protection anyway, even if it's presence is lessened when using hand tools?

Other than everyone having a slightly different take on this sort of thing underlying it all is what's reasonable based on the actual conditions.

I'm nearly entirely a hand-tool user and as I work in the kitchen I'm very aware of when dust is generated and by what operations because of where it can end up. And with most handtool operations there is little true dust.

In the afternoons I'm working in light directly through sliding glass doors and if it's sunny any dust in the air can easily be seen as it's brightly illuminated. I was ripping and crosscutting a bit of pine yesterday and it happened to be sunny and there was practically no airborne dust created.

The three key things with wood dust I think are:

• hardwood or softwood (you're more at risk with hardwoods)
• the fineness of the dust
• how much of it is thrown into the air as the wood is being worked.

The last two obviously tie in together, since fine dusts get airborne (and stay airborne) much more readily. And other than sanding no handwork operations creates much fine dust, especially no dust in the sub-micron range so not wearing a mask or respirator seems perfectly reasonable in most cases. An obvious exception would be certain irritating woods that you wouldn't want to breathe in even the least spec of.

The danger of wood dust as a carcinogen seems to be consistently overstated on woodworking forums. The evidence seems firm that there is just one type of cancer associated with wood dust exposure and that is a rare form of nasal cancer and only from occupational exposure to hardwood dust. The real risk for most users is irritation and allergic reactions to the wood, which while not generally life-threatening can become bad enough to stop someone woodworking.

 

[LFS19]

An extractor fan in the warmer months and a dust filter when the heating is on should be enough.
There will always be some amounts of dust in the air and in spite of this, I've never heard of anyone
wearing a dust mask constantly in the shop.

Indeed, I've heard of people using the filters in a similar thread I put up a few months back.

Thanks

 

[LFS19]

wood dust is a lung destroyer. End of story.
The bad part is that its the very fine dust you cant see that is the most dangerous.

If your head is bent over the work then you really should be wearing a mask. Its a bloody nuisance, but you really dont want COPD, which is just as bad as emphysemia, asbestosis, black lung or any other of those life changing illnesses.
The reason you dont see it on a tube video is because they cant talk to you while wearing a mask. Plus of course there are always the "it will never happen to me" brigade

I watched a man woodturning on a lathe without a mask, It was cold, and there was an electric heater at his knees. Standing behind him I could see a constant cloud of fine dust coming off the lathe, meeting the hot air, and rising straight across his face. He could not see that dust, and yes, he does have breathing problems..

That's a scary thought.
My grandfather has chronic bronchitis which my grandmother believes had been brought on from too many DIY jobs without a mask..

Thanks

 

[LFS19]

Not much dust from hand tools until you get to sanding. Machines are the problem.

If there is any dust the heavy stuff may reach the floor but the fine stuff settles everywhere. I've found the only way to dislodge it is with a ******** - an old vacuum cleaner plus pipe and nozzle which blows. I leave the dust extractor on while I'm doing it and then vacuum the floor. You can feel the difference after a good blow out.

I've been wondering about the Record air filter - are they value for money, cost much to run (replacing filters etc)?

See I don't have an extractor or anything yet, so removing the fine dust that has settled everywhere on occasion
is a daunting task.

Thanks

 

[LFS19]

depends what hand tools, stanley knife, hammer and chisel, not so much, planes, a little bit.
Handsaw, oh yes, thats dangerous dust.

Indeed - the hand saws were what I was most concerned about.

Thanks

 

[LFS19]

All operations on wood create dust.

As has been said, as a general rule, the smaller particles are more dangerous (and harder to see without suitable sunbeams!) than the larger ones. Duration/frequency of exposure is another key factor.

The impact of the dust also depends on the nature of the wood. As a general rule, the more exotic/beautiful the wood, the greater chance of allergy/danger, but even beech wood dust is considered carcinogenic (according to the German instructions with my table saw). There are some types of cancer of the nose/sinus which are considered to be occupational hazards of woodworkers.

Obviously if the timber has been treated in some way that's important too. I was handplaning some tanalised spruce (an otherwise low-risk species) yesterday, and created a lot of fine dust besides the shavings. I wore a mask.

Another point is that many types of timber (e.g. spalted beech/birch) contain mould spores which themselves can cause harm.

These kinds of risk are hard to quantify - it's a numbers game after all. However, respiratory disease is no fun and precautions are easy to take.

Cheers, W2S

Yeah - I saw a chart once of dust danger and types of wood.

It is a numbers game - in terms of precaution, there are many masks on the market which can be quite daunting as I found out from another thread. The recomended ones were the 3M masks and filters and the trend airshield.

Luckily I'm yet to deal with any particularly dangerous wood or treated wood.

Thanks

 

[LFS19]

I was wondering what sort of dust we're dealing with when using hand tools - that is, are dust masks and so on required when using a hand saw as they would using a powered miter saw?

I'd have to say this would generally be a no.

what separates power tools and hand tools in regards to the dangers of dust.

The amount of and fineness of the dust.

I know of course that power tools kick out allot more dust in general, but if the dust is so bad for you, would it not be better to wear protection anyway, even if it's presence is lessened when using hand tools?

Other than everyone having a slightly different take on this sort of thing underlying it all is what's reasonable based on the actual conditions.

I'm nearly entirely a hand-tool user and as I work in the kitchen I'm very aware of when dust is generated and by what operations because of where it can end up. And with most handtool operations there is little true dust.

In the afternoons I'm working in light directly through sliding glass doors and if it's sunny any dust in the air can easily be seen as it's brightly illuminated. I was ripping and crosscutting a bit of pine yesterday and it happened to be sunny and there was practically no airborne dust created.

The three key things with wood dust I think are:

• hardwood or softwood (you're more at risk with hardwoods)
• the fineness of the dust
• how much of it is thrown into the air as the wood is being worked.

The last two obviously tie in together, since fine dusts get airborne (and stay airborne) much more readily. And other than sanding no handwork operations creates much fine dust, especially no dust in the sub-micron range so not wearing a mask or respirator seems perfectly reasonable in most cases. An obvious exception would be certain irritating woods that you wouldn't want to breathe in even the least spec of.

The danger of wood dust as a carcinogen seems to be consistently overstated on woodworking forums. The evidence seems firm that there is just one type of cancer associated with wood dust exposure and that is a rare form of nasal cancer and only from occupational exposure to hardwood dust. The real risk for most users is irritation and allergic reactions to the wood, which while not generally life-threatening can become bad enough to stop someone woodworking.

I see, thanks for the post, that's good to know.
I haven't really been near an outside light source when I'm working to see the dust that well, unfortunetly.
I have to say the subject has worried me quite a bit since I started wood working about six months ago.
I've only really every worked with pine - oak once or twice.

I use power tools and hand tools together, but I still haven't bought a table saw to rip wood length ways (I have a miter saw for sizing the wood but that's it)
So I I think I'll learn how to properly rip with a hand saw and stick with that.