dovetail and tenon saws

[Phil Pascoe]

Watching a couple of YouTube videos on dovetail cutting (47 years since the last one, I need all the help I can get) made me wonder - has anyone had a conventional dt or tenon saw recut to cut on the pull? Did it work? I can't really see why it shouldn't?
What is the difference between a say £50 saw and a £150 saw from the same maker, other than finish?

 

[Beau]

If you want to cut on the pull why not switch a Japanese saw? Pull saws are so narrow due to the steel only having to be strong enough under tension making cutting very easy.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Because I already have six.

 

[Beau]

Because I already have six.

Ah well yes I can see you might one spare to dabble with

 

[Corneel]

Why would you? Billions of woodowrkers before have gotten along with the standard teeth on dovetailsaws just fine. When you just start out with something new it is usually best to follow standard practice and learn the technique. Then you'll quickly understand why the saws were made like they are.

One of the differences between Japanese and Western saws is the handle. The long inline handle lends itself better to a pulling action then the pistol grip handle of the western saws. All components of an ancient technique work together, workholding, saw ergonomics, teeth configuration, even the kind of projects they make and the kinds of wood they use.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Why would I? Maybe I would ... maybe I wouldn't ... Just being curious, really. :lol:

 

[bugbear]

Altering a saw with what I shall (in a loaded way) call a "push handle" to cut on the pull stroke doesn't sound wise.

BugBear

 

[AndyT]

I agree with Corneel about how hand tools make sense as part of a whole system of work.

But on the other hand, you have the tools, time and inclination to do some experiments which could be interesting for all of us. So why not have a go and find out what it's like, for you, in your workshop. I don't expect it's a one-step route to dovetail heaven, but you've got nothing to lose!

 

[Cheshirechappie]

One reason might be that with a conventional western saw, kerf rag and sawdust exit happen at the back of the workpiece, leaving the front with it's marking-out lines clear(er). That may be less of a problem with a thin-kerfed, fine-toothed saw such as a dovetail saw though - and the Japs don't seem to mind much.

I suppose there's only one way to find out. You could also leave an interesting question for a future generation of forumites - "Why does this Ebay dovetail saw have teeth filed the wrong way round? Was the previous owner an idiot, or having a laugh?"

 

[AJB Temple]

I have a variety of gentlemen's saws and dovetail saws that I haev used in instrument making for years and years. These days I also use Japanese saws a lot. I like J saws.

For value versus performance I think it is hard to beat the Veritas dovetail saws. Half the price of Lie Nielson, a third of the price of Bad Axe etc, performance is faultless, very sharp out of the box, easy to start. The Veritas saws are what I mostly use now for hand work.

 

[ED65]

Phil, you wouldn't be the first person to try this. I remember reading of at least one backsaw filed in reverse. In one case I think it was done by accident but no matter, it worked fine!

No idea where this was but I've also seen a SBS where someone started with a long one and simply reversed the blade. He clipped off the extra length and after using the offcut to mark the plate drilled new mounting holes at the other end. The spine was then hacksawed down and the whole put back together. Again, apparently it worked fine.

Given old backsaws are as common as muck in the UK, and about as expensive, I don't see any reason not to give it a whirl if you're so inclined.

 

[deema]

I tried it a different way. I took a hacksaw and reversed the blade, it's about 20 TPI and has a blade thick enough for most dovetails. Cut no problem either way around, however, as already stated, I like to see and cut from the show side, and having the blade the 'wrong way around' can cause blow out on the show side / makes it more difficult to see the line.

It's just my opinion: a country that has no natural resources (Japan) would be inclined to develop tools that recognise the scarce and by consequence costly steel. For me it follows that the draw saw that do not require a stiffener along the back would be a natural consequence. My perceived downside to this arrangement would be outweighed by the cost saving / scarcity of steel.

 

[bridger]

has anyone had a conventional dt or tenon saw recut to cut on the pull? Did it work? I can't really see why it shouldn't?

http://www.zonatool.net/cat/zona-razor- ... azor-saws/

 

[bridger]

on the zona saws-

I have a small one, in pull configuration. it works fine. I seldom use it, partly because the size isn't a major player in my shop but more because I tend to reach for other saws that don't make me think about the teeth instead of the cut, I guess.

 

[lurcher]

horses for ccourses try out on an old saw and see but you got to configer the teth correct otherwise you cannot realy compare it with a western saw so good luck and give us all your feedback .
ps dont forget about the flex in the plate and the size of the steel thickness