Door seals

[MikeG.]

I am shortly going to be making a couple of front doors, and have started thinking about seals.

The door surrounds are green oak posts, and a 4 centred arch in green oak. The stops will be seasoned oak, and planted on the posts to line with a rebate cut along the under edge of the spandrels forming the arch. None of this suggests easy answers for sealing the doors. The outer porch door will be vertical boards and 4 ledges. The inner door will be almost 75mm thick, being vertical boards on one side and a raised grid of timbers on the inside face sandwiching insulation and a sheet of ply.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to the best approach to sealing the doors?

 

[Beau]

Is this to go in the lovely porch you posted? Great work by the way

A chap locally does green oak buildings and got to see a few close up. If I remember rightly he makes the door frame from dried oak and uses a thick neoprene seal between the green oak and the frame. The amount of movement can be substantial through the drying process and I think he said he still sometimes has to make adjustments as things dry out. Good luck as it looks a superb project

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Wow - sounds very impressive. Aquamac 21 seems to be the de facto standard for door seals. It would be easy to use a machine to cut straight slots in the stops, but for slotting the curved parts I guess you'd need to use more subtlety - a scratch stock (given this is not a mass-production) maybe?

Please post pics of the build...

Cheers, W2S

 

[ColeyS1]

Would one like this in the edge of the planted on door stop work?

Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[MikeG.]

Is this to go in the lovely porch you posted? Great work by the way

A chap locally does green oak buildings and got to see a few close up. If I remember rightly he makes the door frame from dried oak and uses a thick neoprene seal between the green oak and the frame. The amount of movement can be substantial through the drying process and I think he said he still sometimes has to make adjustments as things dry out. Good luck as it looks a superb project

Thanks. Yes, they're to go in that porch and the inner front door it covers.

There's no separate door frame in mine, I'm afraid. The doors will fit in the structural frames, which are green (albeit the inner door structure has been in place for 18 months or more).

 

[MikeG.]

Wow - sounds very impressive. Aquamac 21 seems to be the de facto standard for door seals. It would be easy to use a machine to cut straight slots in the stops, but for slotting the curved parts I guess you'd need to use more subtlety - a scratch stock (given this is not a mass-production) maybe?

Please post pics of the build...

Cheers, W2S

Here's the porch:https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/green-oak-porch-t107510.html

The arch isn't in place yet because I am going to do the doors first and fit the arch to it, rather than the other way around. Then I have the carving to do.

A scratch stock is certainly possible. Time, on this job, is my last concern.

 

[MikeG.]

Would one like this in the edge of the planted on door stop work?

Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

That looks like it would do the trick. Do you know what it is, and what size the groove is?

 

[Beau]

Would one like this in the edge of the planted on door stop work?

Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

That looks like it would do the trick. Do you know what it is, and what size the groove is?

Pretty sure that's the Aquamac 21 Woody2Shoes mentions. There are special cutter for use with it. This is the Trend cutter for it but think Wealden do a cheaper cutter https://www.wealdentool.com/acatalog/On ... 10_2d1_2f2

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Yup, Coley's pic looks like Aquamac 21 (available in black, white and shinola brown) - Trend do router cutters to suit.

For the curved sections, the rigid(ish) spine of the Aquamac strip might be a challenge. I think that judicious use of a hot air gun should allow it to be bent (over a former perhaps) to suit the curve - a bit like bending string inlay for curved sections - if the curve is too tight without this.

Cheers, W2S

 

[Woody2Shoes]

...The arch isn't in place yet because I am going to do the doors first and fit the arch to it, rather than the other way around....

.... Then I have the carving to do.....

I'm intrigued as to why you're doing it in that order - all things being equal I'd probably do arch first then door.

Carving? Yay!

Cheers, W2S

 

[MikeG.]

Can anyone see any issues with using this seal in the stops, rather than on the frame? Normally the edge of the door would bear onto it, but in this case, it would be the face of the door.

 

[MikeG.]

...The arch isn't in place yet because I am going to do the doors first and fit the arch to it, rather than the other way around....

.... Then I have the carving to do.....

I'm intrigued as to why you're doing it in that order - all things being equal I'd probably do arch first then door.

Carving? Yay!

Cheers, W2S

It's just a thought, but setting out a 4 centred arch is easier on a door than 2 bits of wood sitting on the floor. For a start, the centres actually occur on something solid. Once the door is made I would simply overlay it over the spandrels and mark on the outline. I'll give it some more thought.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Can anyone see any issues with using this seal in the stops, rather than on the frame? Normally the edge of the door would bear onto it, but in this case, it would be the face of the door.

No because, although primarily designed as a wiping seal, it can also work as a compression seal - I think in reality it probably does a bit of both in most practical situations. If you're still nervous about this, you could maybe consider another Aquamac profile e.g. 63 (compression, although I've seen it used in a wiping situation) or one of the strips available from Reddiseals Cheese, W2S

 

[Woody2Shoes]

...The arch isn't in place yet because I am going to do the doors first and fit the arch to it, rather than the other way around....

.... Then I have the carving to do.....

I'm intrigued as to why you're doing it in that order - all things being equal I'd probably do arch first then door.

Carving? Yay!

Cheers, W2S

It's just a thought, but setting out a 4 centred arch is easier on a door than 2 bits of wood sitting on the floor. For a start, the centres actually occur on something solid. Once the door is made I would simply overlay it over the spandrels and mark on the outline. I'll give it some more thought.

Maybe a template or two would be easiest? W2S

 

[ColeyS1]

Yup, Coley's pic looks like Aquamac 21 (available in black, white and shinola brown) - Trend do router cutters to suit.

For the curved sections, the rigid(ish) spine of the Aquamac strip might be a challenge. I think that judicious use of a hot air gun should allow it to be bent (over a former perhaps) to suit the curve - a bit like bending string inlay for curved sections - if the curve is too tight without this.

Cheers, W2S

Yeah that's the one. Apologies w2s I missed your earlier post. I guess the rigid spiny bit could be snipped to make it bend a little easier ?


Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[RobinBHM]

aquamac works very well as a compression seal and in a curved head, its easier to bend the spine around a curve.

In the curved parts a small router bit will work, using either a 2 pin arrangement in a table or similar on a router fence.

From memory the groove is 2.7mm

You would be best to make nice thick stop bead to allow plenty of tolerance for the frame to move.

 

[MikeG.]

aquamac works very well as a compression seal and in a curved head, its easier to bend the spine around a curve.

Thanks

In the curved parts a small router bit will work, using either a 2 pin arrangement in a table or similar on a router fence.

Again, thanks, but I'm not sure it will as that would be cutting the wrong face on the curved part.

From memory the groove is 2.7mm

It is, I checked.

[/quote]You would be best to make nice thick stop bead to allow plenty of tolerance for the frame to move.[/quote]

Indeed, and I'll probably leave the screw heads un-pelleted for a year or so, such that the whole bead can be re-adjusted to account for movement.