Does meths colour bare wood? Guitar build.

[Steve Blackdog]

After sanding an area on a finished French Polished alpine spruce guitar top (don't ask why), I seem to have some faint purple staining in the area I have sanded.

I used meths to clean off the shellac before carrying out a repair.

Any ideas how I might bring the natural wood colour back? Would bleach be madness?

Cheers

Steve

 

[Tetsuaiga]

That seems unusual to me.

I've heard the purple fades over time but can't vouch for that myself.

How long ago was it you applied the meths? I'd probably be inclined to sand if possible. Bleach won't look nice.

 

[NazNomad]

Everything I've ever read about 'denatured alcohol vs meths' says that the dye won't affect the wood.

Are you sure the colour came from the meths? You weren't using your purple silk undies to apply it, were you?

 

[marcros]

the purple certainly fades over time if left in the light. I found half of an old bottle when clearing out and it was colourless.

I have used (fresh, purple) meths to wipe over timber to see what the finish is likely to look like. I have never done it on spruce, but have on london plane/lacewood, maple, sycamore and others. I have never had a hint of a purple tinge when doing so. It sounds like there is something else going on there.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Was it a "Deep Purple"?

I'll get me coat

 

[Steve Maskery]

I've never had a purple problem either, although it is not something I use very often anyway. But it is difficult to see how such a microscopic amount of anything so faint to start with could do that. But I'm only speculating, I may be wrong.

I wonder if putting a piece of charcoal in the bottle would remove the dye? I think I might try it and see what happens.
S

 

[AJB Temple]

Meths has various formulations (supposedly conformed after new EU rules in 2013. The purple dye will certainly noticeably stain porous woods and the tops used for guitars (spruce or maple for example) will take it up to differing degrees. I managed to accidently color a spruce top in this way years ago when I was using some rather purple meths to clean up glue residue from edge binding.

Note from a UK chemical manufacturer (wessex):

Industrial Methylated Spirits

IMS99
Also referred to as De-natured Alcohol or IMS/IMS99. PLEASE NOTE: (UK) Government regulations have changed - you need a licence in order to use this product.

Industrial Methylated Spirits is a clear version with no dye. Methylated Spirits often contain a purple dye to serve as a warning, but this dye can stain certain porous surfaces.

 

[Steve Blackdog]

Thanks for you responses.

I did a little experiment. I dipped a spruce off cut in meths. No colour transfer at all. Still I am not ruling meths out as the culprit.

So back to the drawing board. If it ain't meths, what else could possibly stain the wood purple?

The luthiers among you may have guessed- rosewood dust. I may have gotten rosewood dust into the grain.

So, much sanding and I should get there.

 

[AJB Temple]

I think the modern stuff has hardly any dye. I don't use meths any more but my memory of it is that it used to be a lot more purple than the stuff available from teh decorating merchants today. It never seemed to have any effect when making French polish from shellac flakes.

How did you manage to get rosewood into the grain of a spruce top? Did you make it or were you repairing? Presumably rosewood fret board and bridge?

 

[Steve Blackdog]

.

How did you manage to get rosewood into the grain of a spruce top? Did you make it or were you repairing? Presumably rosewood fret board and bridge?

You may well ask!!

I have built the guitar, it has Rosewood bindings, so it would be relatively easy to pick up r/w when sanding the top. Carelessness is generally the cause of most problems in my workshop.

I have several old bottles of meths in the workshop, so I could have been using a very old batch.

Luckily this is a guitar for me to play, rather than one I am building for a customer.

 

[bigbob1]

Unfortunatly I can not help with the stain on the guitar but can give you a good tip if you know of anyone going on a motor holiday to France ask them to bring you back some Alcool a bruler which is French for denatured achohol or meths it is sold at about £1.30 per litre so cheaper than the UK and available in most supermarkets and it is clear and does not smell as our meths does. Every other country in Eurpe seems to put the dye in to some extent. I found this out as I needed some for meth burning stove as I used to tour round Europe on motorbikes.

 

[ED65]

If it ain't meths, what else could possibly stain the wood purple?

The luthiers among you may have guessed- rosewood dust. I may have gotten rosewood dust into the grain.

Just a thought, it might be a bit of both. The coloured compounds in many woods are fairly soluble in alcohols so there's a chance you extracted 'dye' from the wood which then soaked into the spruce.

 

[marcros]

for mixing french polish and for wiping timber to check the wetted look, i use this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IPA-ISOPROPYL ... SwYIhWlll4

i am not sure that it is a direct replacement for meths in all cases, but for what I use it for it does the job.

 

[whiskywill]

if you know of anyone going on a motor holiday to France ask them to bring you back some Alcool a bruler

I brought back four litres the last time I went. It tastes horrible.

 

[owsnap]

First time when reading your thread title I thought you are saying -you have been making Meth and have got it on table by accident and now need to clean it before someone finds out..
Just my imagination as always...

 

[bigbob1]

I brought back four litres the last time I went. It tastes horrible

Thats because you are not using it with a suitable mixer like buckfast.

 

[themackay]

I bought a bottle of clear Meths about a year ago in a small hardware shop was surprised to finf it clear probably should have bought more

 

[JohnPW]

I've got some meths that's gone clear, it's not that old.

Industrial denatured alcohol (IDA) is clear (colourless) but you need a licence to buy it.

 

[Steve Blackdog]

First time when reading your thread title I thought you are saying -you have been making Meth and have got it on table by accident and now need to clean it before someone finds out..
Just my imagination as always...

I understand that brewing up crystal meth is very dangerous, so I'll stick to drinking methylated spirit!

 

[Ttrees]

Ethanol like "everclear" in the states is the only one you want to use .
The rest are all poisonous to breath in long term .
Has anyone tried to make ethanol with say cheap vodka ...
I've heard (NOT from french polishers though) that you can refine the stuff by freezing ?
Don't know if you could get it pure enough though ???

I understand 98% ethanol is the purest it can go without being in a vacuum .
It seems from this snippet of information that the suggestion of freezing would be full of hurdles
even if it does work .
I'm a long long way, away from even thinking of finishes although

Maybe finding some piano repair technicians might head you in the right track ?

Thanks folks