Do we need jointer planes?

[Jona]

Hi all,

This is my first post so I'll try to be brief. My specific question is: Is there anything that a jointer/try plane can do that a surface planer and a jack plane can't?

Obviously a planer leaves machining 'ripples' which can be removed with a hand plane, but does it need to be a jointer? Or to phrase it differently, would it be significantly quicker or easier with a jointer plane?

Anticipating the obvious question, I'm looking at one of the numerous 10x7" planer thicknesser clones (Fox/Charnwood etc.) with stock up to about 4' long.

Thanks

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Jona - Welcome aboard,

If you intend purchasing a planer machine and providing you can set it up to make sqaure cuts then the addition of jointer plane is not essential.

Perhaps more so if you wish to pursue woodworking with hand tools only and again, only if you are working regularly with long boards.

A #5 or 5 1/2 may be as long a plane to clean the ripples marks from the planer.

Good luck

David

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Hi Jona, and welcome to the forum!

I'd agree with what David's written. For somebody doing their bulk stock preparation by machine, for finishing surfaces only a smoothing plane is needed. However - there is a slight caveat, which is that preparing board edges for glue-joints is best done with a longer plane. That need not necessarily be a full try or jointer length, but longer is better than shorter to remove any humps or dips there might be, and makes getting a close-fitting joint quicker and easier than with a shorter plane. A good compromise that some adopt is to use a plane of jack length with a fine-set blade having only a very slight camber, or square with just the corners eased, for both surface smoothing and edge jointing.

Things are a bit different When preparing boards by hand methods, when a rank-set jack plane with a heavily-cambered blade is used to rough the surface and edges out, to be followed by a try plane with a finer set and slight-cambered iron to true up the surface or edge, the length of the plane allowing it to ride over humps and dips, thus planing them out. The smoother is then reserved for any final finishing of either stock boards or assemblies.

 

[profchris]

Definitely depends on what you're making. I make ukuleles, tiny things, and thought I didn't need a jointer plane. But having found a Stanley No 7 recently, it has vastly improved my joining of the plates which make the top and back of the instrument. Final thickness is under 2mm, so I need as near perfect a fit as can be achieved. The plane is about twice as long as my boards, which I thought would be overkill, but not at all!

 

[Racers]

I was trying to plane a thin short length of wood and it kept bending the only thing that kept it flat was the toe of my Record No8 which was long enough to cover it.

The No8 is fantastic for jointing edges, I use a slightly cambered blade and David C method of using the camber to produce a square edge, i.e. using the different amount of blade projection given by the camber to remove a variable amount of wood.

Pete

 

[Shrubby]

There are a couple of examples where a jointer is usefull: Held upside down in a vice to plane small pieces that I would never push over a machine, also flattening surfaces too large to machine such as table tops
Matt

 

[Jona]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

Profchris, I am a luthier too, mostly interested in electrics but I do make acoustics too, in fact I'm currently making a steel-string terz guitar; not much bigger than a uke

So far I've done all of my stock preparation with my Veritas LA jack; fantastically versatile plane but it's hard work getting long neck blanks true, never mind hogging off all the bulk first! I'll be building my first proper (i.e. not a small shed) workshop next year, hence the desire for a planer thicknesser. I have tried out a friend's Veritas BU Jointer, which takes the same blades as the Jack, and I must admit to getting that yearning feeling...

Another option I have considered is to just get a thicknesser, joint a face & edge with planes then machine off the bulk. Any of you guys do that?

Cheers

 

[D_W]

I don't know what it's like to build a guitar and whether or not you'd like to fit a couple of thousandths off of one side to clean something up, but that kind of thing is extremely easy to do with a jointer plane and not so easy to do with power tools unless they're very accurate and well set up.

(of course, maybe that work is all jigged when it comes to guitars).

For the purposes of the question in general, I'd say there's one thing that a jointer can do that a power jointer can't do, and that's work in a shop without a power jointer, and do it without raising a lot of dust.

 

[profchris]

D_W, joining plates is generally hand work. The ideal is a light-tight joint when the plates are held together. No idea what that is, but I'd guess 1-2 thou, 0.025-0.05mm in my money.

Jona, I don't know of any acoustic instrument builder who uses a thicknesses on plates. Down around 2mm they just eat the wood, particularly if it has figure. A drum sander is the power tool of choice. I make 5 or 6 a year, and have (nearly) learnt to do it all with hand planes and scrapers. Oh, and my Stanley no 7 was £25 from a car boot sale, not as shiny as a Veritas but ...

 

[mouppe]

I only use my #7 jointer for truing edges. I use a jack plane or a #5 1/2 for flattening boards. If you use winding sticks and straight edges, you can see where the problem areas are and smaller planes than a jointer will get you where you need to be with less effort and faster than with a jointer plane.

My thickness planer is only 13" wide so I often need to flatten boards by hand. I only use it to get me close to thickness anyway. I always end with hand planes.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I joined up a few 22" boards yesterday with my old American Stanley No.8 with a newly ground and honed Sweetheart iron perfectly easily, holding the plane with one hand (awkward due to disability). It is difficult to imagine any new incarnation of a plane that size could perform any better. They were made for a reason - I had forgotten how beautiful it is.

 

[Jona]

I compared the Veritas to an old record no.8 on some poplar, walnut and maple. The Veritas felt a lot more effortless in the cut, and my edges were coming out much closer to square without having to check and consciously adjust my angle- possibly I'm just more used to the low centre of gravity. Either way I'd agree that a boot sale Bailey no.7/8 would be better value.

Any opinions on the accuracy of cheaper machines? I have had a small amount of experience on large industrial grade planers and thicknessers which produced very good results, but I'm a little skeptical about a <£1000 machine producing dead straight, flat surfaces, which I do need for luthiery. I know I can get that accuracy with a long hand plane if the machine is a bit sketchy.