Dear Members- A point and a reminder

[Random Orbital Bob]

It was a judgement call and the fact of the matter is the thread had a lot of energy to it. It was a matter of seismic importance and it's clear from the "withdrawal" I'm sensing above that it struck a note with the members. Last weeks events were after all quite literally history in the making. It was for that reason the mods let it exist in the first place despite it clearly contravening the no politics rule. I did appeal on more than one occasion for consideration and respect when disagreeing, which believe it or not is entirely possible amongst those of a mature disposition.

It seemed to me that the week following the result was in fact more important than the run up since it became real, very very suddenly! Hence leaving it up for the same reason. During that time Noel, Chas and I felt compelled to comment too because amazingly, we're also part of all this.

But as of last night it just started to deteriorate. The comment about Phil was simply unacceptable and I have to say Naz, I think your AK47 line wasn't far off. I'm with Noel on that 100%.

The arguments were becoming a little circular and it just seemed to have lost it's energy and vibrancy so it was felt the time had come. But "Je ne regret rien" as they say in Europe!

I think 99% of the contributions were interesting and some really insightful (Custard springs to mind) so I thank everyone for that.

 

[Chippyjoe]

I expect I will probably get a ban for this, but feel that certain members on here can come in and throw their weight about and get away with it. Without going into naming names, they know who they are as along with a vast amount of posters on here do as well.
My two penneth, politics should be banned on here as all it does is stir up the worst in people, if posters could be constructive in their posts fine, but it seems to me that if you state your opinion and it doesn't "fit" then standby for abuse.

Life is to short and there are a lot of horrible things that go on this world that are far more important than some of the rubbish I read on here.

Mark.

 

[Noel]

I expect I will probably get a ban for this, but feel that certain members on here can come in and throw their weight about and get away with it. Without going into naming names, they know who they are as along with a vast amount of posters on here do as well.
My two penneth, politics should be banned on here as all it does is stir up the worst in people, if posters could be constructive in their posts fine, but it seems to me that if you state your opinion and it doesn't "fit" then standby for abuse.

Life is to short and there are a lot of horrible things that go on this world that are far more important than some of the rubbish I read on here.

Mark.

Think you're safe from a ban Mark...
Have to agree, there are a few that really showed their true colours and for me, I think that's important. They did indeed try to act large with abuse and personal insults, peddling lies to try and legitimise their behaviour. As you say, most of us know who they are and I hope their abusive and divisive rants leave a permanent scar on their membership here. After all, the internet remembers everything.

As for politics, like religion, you're correct. Pity really.
Lastly,as Bob has said, the referendum thread was important to many and mostly it was civil and harmonious but as happens in some other discussions, there's alway a few who ruin things for the rest.

 

[NazNomad]

...and I have to say Naz, I think your AK47 line wasn't far off. I'm with Noel on that 100%

Fairy Nuff. As I said, it wasn't posted to upset anyone, just to highlight the narrow-mindedness of the post I quoted.

 

[Baldhead]

discussions (arguments) on religion and politics are pointless. No one EVER changes their minds.

I find myself more and more drawn to religion, funnily enough I've never been religious, although it's not any discussions I've had causing the changes, I think this may be because of my depression.
I do agree though that political discussions (arguments) are a waste of time, been there got the t shirt!

Baldhead

 

[mind_the_goat]

Well, if you are happy to leave our leaders to do what they tell you is best for you then fine. Some of us feel the need to check up on them from time to time and that requires stepping out of our bubbles. It didn't change my mind but it definitely wasn't a waste of time for me. I think it was a far more useful discussion then one that might have been found on a specialist political forum where opinions would likely have been far more dogmatic.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I agree. For some indefinable reason, that thread had some credibility once you subtracted the xenophobia. Even the xenophobia had a role to play because it kind of documents the kind of proportion of folks who feel that way. Who knows, that same proportion may be roughly equal to that seen in society at large

At the end of that thread I felt more comfortable with the motives of the leavers. That their reasons were largely well intentioned when directly after the result I was just angry. In that sense, the at times divisive, I admit, debate actually helped me rationalise how the country is thinking. Before, I couldn't for the life of me imagine why anyone would have wanted to vote to destroy our economy after years of rebuilding it. Originally, I put it down to xenophobia and ignorance but I now believe it is the sincere rejection of a non accountable group that is fundamentally the problem. The consequences of that group are hitting our traditional labour markets breeding fear and resentment.

I kept asking myself, hang on, we're not a country with 17 million racists, just no way. So a more plausible explanation was needed and that thread helped clarify it for me

 

[woodpig]

I have to disagree about deleting offensive comments in posts. It's very easy to do and I've seen it done often enough on other forums. You delete the offensive part them pm the offender telling them what you've done and why. Any further infractions will result in a month ban. What's so difficult?

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

It's not technically difficult to do Woody.......just staggeringly time consuming. Have you seen the post count, daily on this forum (and growing incidentally)? The sheer hours needed to spend moderating (which means reading EVERY post carefully and making a call) is unfeasible given most of us have day jobs and families. And, incidentally, do this voluntarily.

The in/out thread was growing at 2 pages about every 3 hours. That one thread alone kept me busy on the balanced moderating front because it was riddled with dangerous possibilities (which is of course the original reason religion and politics are avoided). I still say it was worth it for the reasons stated in my earlier but please don't under estimate the time necessary to moderate while trying to be reasonable, inclusive and balanced. Not tying to claim martyr status or anything silly, just preaching a bit on the realities of whats involved.

As a "yes and"....the forum software was written just before the Norman Conquest I believe. ye olde windows! It's clunky, difficult to use and counter intuitive so once you've made a call, you then have to execute the command down in the technical weeds. After moving a post or two I've usually lost the will to live!

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

I agree. For some indefinable reason, that thread had some credibility once you subtracted the xenophobia. Even the xenophobia had a role to play because it kind of documents the kind of proportion of folks who feel that way. Who knows, that same proportion may be roughly equal to that seen in society at large

At the end of that thread I felt more comfortable with the motives of the leavers. That their reasons were largely well intentioned when directly after the result I was just angry. In that sense, the at times divisive, I admit, debate actually helped me rationalise how the country is thinking. Before, I couldn't for the life of me imagine why anyone would have wanted to vote to destroy our economy after years of rebuilding it. Originally, I put it down to xenophobia and ignorance but I now believe it is the sincere rejection of a non accountable group that is fundamentally the problem. The consequences of that group are hitting our traditional labour markets breeding fear and resentment.

I kept asking myself, hang on, we're not a country with 17 million racists, just no way. So a more plausible explanation was needed and that thread helped clarify it for me

I feel very similarly about the thread. It was interesting to be outside my normal echo chamber, I only know 1 leaver in the real world and I share a workshop with him and try never to discuss politics with him as he genuinely is a xenophobe and racist (although weirdly not with people when they're actually in front of him, just all the ones he's never met). For me it was reassuring to hear people like Cheshirechappie and Benchwayze be anti EU but open minded about immigration and immigrants. I'm glad the thread is over though because my boss was getting irritated about how much work time I was spending looking at the computer, my boss is very harsh with me (I'm self employed).
Paddy

 

[woodpig]

Point taken Bob. I go on lots of forums that obviously use wildly different software so I suppose it must be much easier on some forums than others. You also have a very low "staff" count on this forum compared to many others I frequent.

 

[NazNomad]

What's so difficult?

The difficulty lies in personal interpretation of the post and also the risk of appearing over zealous if you take away people's right to free speech.

 

[woodpig]

What's so difficult?

The difficulty lies in personal interpretation of the post and also the risk of appearing over zealous if you take away people's right to free speech.

They're big boys, I'm sure they can work it out. It's a forum, not a democracy.

 

[AJB Temple]

I am with ROB, Bob on moderation. I used to be very heavily involved with a forum that involved a lot of professional and amateur pianists. Like an silly person I agree to be a moderator and found myself dealing with some quite incredibly abusive rants against dealers, other members, and goodness knows what. It was a real waste of time. Mods bent over backwards not to be trigger happy. The forum was much bigger and more global than this one, but I vowed "never again" as a moderator. This forum is actually quite mild and even on the offending thread there were only a few posts that were really out of order. Politeness should be the order of the day whether on the net or in person. Would be a shame to suppress the "personalities" though.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

None of us like to be the heavy handed censor, it's not in our nature. And for the record, I'll tell you our pet hates:

- people who get angry and lash out with personal insults/insulting language....I mean whats the point...really. You just look a complete burk that cant control yourself. So you don't agree with the posters viewpoint, so what, go fly a kite when you're angry, stop posting.

- commercial operations that clearly value the highly segmented and targeted readership here but won't put their hands in their pockets to fund advertising so wriggle and squirm, duck and dive to "sneak" posts past the team. Pathetic, learn the value of investing in appropriate channels to market to grow your business. Prime the pump as we used to say.

- The "for sale thread 20 post warriors". These are another bunch of time wasters that think they're clever enough to put one over and avoid E bay fees by joining here just to flog some kit. They make 20 garbage posts in quick succession to qualify and then....BOOM...the tools go up.

- Any misuse of colour, creed, race, religion etc which is just common sense in this day and age.

And....relax....that's better

 

[MattRoberts]

Good vent Bob!

 

[Baldhead]

Well, if you are happy to leave our leaders to do what they tell you is best for you then fine. Some of us feel the need to check up on them from time to time and that requires stepping out of our bubbles. It didn't change my mind but it definitely wasn't a waste of time for me. I think it was a far more useful discussion then one that might have been found on a specialist political forum where opinions would likely have been far more dogmatic.

I was referring to political discussions on this forum!

Baldhead

 

[NazNomad]

Now, whilst I am perfectly happy to be the scapegoat from another thread chock-full of personal insults, it really doesn't bother me at all... but did we ever discover what made the OP post this thread in the first place?

Just wondering.

 

[DiscoStu]

I come from a forum where we used to have a particular member who would post a lot of controversial stuff and disagree with people and generally cause all sorts of issues and hassles including legal threats to the committee on a regular basis. He was eventually told that his membership was going to be reviewed and he then walked away from the club. What then happened was that the number of people taking part in the online forum declined because despite a lot of people moaning about him the controversy he brought made things interesting.

As I was the brunt of a lot of the legal threats (I'm chairman of this club) I don't miss the threats but I do actually miss the guy and his alternative take on some things. If we all thought the same thing life would be pretty dull.

Now having said that the referendum thread is well past its sell by date in my opinion and if it were down to me, I'd lock it and ask people to move on. Has nobody asked how to sharpen anything for a while?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ColeyS1]

Are we saying to use the for sale section, members have to make 20 posts before using ? I've seen numerous new members lately using it

Coley