Dealing with costly, dry and buckled veneers.

[Benchwayze]

I haven’t seen much on the forum regarding the flattening of ‘buckled’ exotic veneers, such as burls and flames. These expensive veneers often come in resembling book pages that have been left in a damp room. The problem is they are fragile and they break easily, if you try to apply them as-is.

I don’t often use veneer, and some years ago, I had a small piece of burr-elm to lay. The veneer resembled a relief map of the Himalayas! Without a vacuum press (which might be a sledgehammer for small sizes,) I sought advice from the late, much-missed Jim Kingshott.

Here’s what he told me.

Dampen the veneer with warm water and let soak (out of the water) until it is reasonably pliable.

Apply a weak coat of warm animal-glue size to the side you have chosen as the ‘shown’ side.

Place a sheet of dampened newsprint, or brown paper on a flat ‘caul’ (melamine coated chipboard is ideal.)

Place the veneer with the sized face downwards onto the paper.

Place another sheet of paper over the veneer and dampen again. Then cramp the whole lot with another flat caul on top, and leave for 24 hours. (At least) This should flatten the veneer completely.

Remove most of the sized paper with a warm, damp pad. Now you can apply the veneer. I used cascamite and the cauls again, with aluminium foil to prevent sticking to the cauls. It worked.

After you have applied the veneer and it’s all dry, remove any remaining paper by soaking off again and maybe a gentle scraping. Then you can sand and fill, before applying your chosen finish.

This worked for me and I was able to apply the burr-elm as if it was a modern, ready glued veneer. I was also able to work the recess for an inlay without any chipping of the glued veneer. No problems at all. It really was a breeze in this small size. It was mostly a case of patience, and softly-softly catch the monkey.

Hope this helps

Regards

John

Burr elm

Mahogany

Opened slope.
The inlays were box and ebony stringing.

The pics are old SLR shots scanned in via a non-dedicated film scanner, so apologies for the quality of the pics. The lid-closures were dealt with before the pieces left my shop.

 

[frugal]

I have successfully used the recipe in the following article by Richard Jones: http://www.richardjonesfurniture.com/PDFs/FlatteningVeneer.pdf

I was a little concerned about the use of PVA glue, but it does not seem to stick everything together. I used nylon mesh bags that steel tubing had been delivered in as the mesh plastic (I tried to use glass fibre sheets, but they just disintegrated).

 

[yetloh]

I have successfully used the potion mentioned in W. A. Lincoln's The Complete Manual of Wood Veneering for the most intransigent veneers which is:

2 parts Cascamite
1 part wheat flour (not self raising)
3 parts water
1.5 parts glycerine
1 part meths

all by volume.

This is put in a shallow tray and the veneer passed through it, then hung up to until touch dry. The veneers are then interleaved with polythene and pressed between boards under a heavy weight overnight. The object is to flatten them slowly so moderate pressure is better, otherwise they may crack. My veneers were transformed into something more like leather in texture which is a delight to work with, having a lot of flexibility and good resistance to cracking and splitting and very easy to cut. They went down very well with Cascamite.

Jim

 

[bugbear]

I have successfully used the potion mentioned in W. A. Lincoln's The Complete Manual of Wood Veneering

This is pretty much the "bible" of veneering (and inlay, and marquetry)

Very "dry" presentation though, which may put some people off, and a little oriented towards "full scale" techniques, which are a little capital/space intensive for anyone not doing LOTS of veneering.

BugBear

 

[woodbloke]

I've never used any veneer that's buckled but the way John suggests is about right, which is to dampen it and then leave under pressure between some cauls for a while. I saw it done once on some fabulous walnut burr which worked a treat...should have done as the maker left it in in a hydraulic platen press overnight - Rob

 

[yetloh]

Using warm water and then pressing can work and I have had success with this method on some pretty bumpy burr elm but on some other burrs it just does not work - with all sorts of damage occurring. My worst problems were with this table

The main veneer is a burry maple which was very prone to cracking and splitting as it dried after gluing down. The Lincoln formula transformed it although I still had one curvy two inch split to repair in one of the segments. These splits (which can open up to 2mm wide) seem to be due to differential tensions in the quilted sections between the areas of burr resulting in shrinkage along the line of the quilting. It was well worth the effort though as these are really stunning veneers. The idea of the table top is to suggest a tree canopy - hence the random segment width and outer curves.

Jim

 

[Corset]

That table is very nice. Any more photos?
Owen

 

[davebray]

Yetloh - the table top is fantastic.
Cheers
Dave

 

[Harbo]

Wow - that is some top!!

Rod

 

[jimi43]

John, Jim

Some BEAUTIFUL work there guys....I am a HUGE fan of veneers on guitar that I build.

Those tips are brilliant. I usually get and keep my veneers pressed but have seen some veneers even at the stockists that are wavy wavy wavy!

Nice to know I know how to flatten them now that I have these tips should I ever need to!

Jim

 

[yetloh]

Thanks for the complimentary comments guys. I'm glad you like the table.

Here are some more pics:

The underframe is intended to be as tree-like as possible - roots, trunk, branches - and is in steam bent local Ash.

A view of the underside of the table showing the "branches" and the ply ribs, veneered and lipped in Walnut, which stiffen the frame sufficiently to reduce flex to an acceptable level. There are also ribs in the bottom but these go right across and are half lapped.

An arty shot through the central glass panel in the top showing the sycamore/maple leaf (carved in Lime!) which has fallen from the canopy. And no, I haven't installed under top lighting! This was done with four sheets of white paper stuck to the underside of the table and an anglepoise pointing up from the floor. Can't take credit for the pics which are by my daughter.

Jim

 

[jimi43]

Jim...

That table is without any doubt one of the most beautiful pieces I have seen in a very long while...

Simply amazing...I LOVE the leaf touch...incredible work!

Thanks for sharing

And...tell your daughter she is a brilliant photographer also...

Jimi

 

[Harbo]

Even more stunning - absolutely fabulous!

The leaf is a brilliant touch.

Can only repeat with what Jimi said

Rod

 

[yetloh]

Thanks Jimi and Rod, comments much appreciated and I will pass on the compliment to my daughter.

Jim

 

[Jake]

That is beautiful, especially the top. Love the leaf conceit as well.

 

[Mattty]

Jim that is quite an extraordinarily brilliant piece. It is both visually beautiful and wnderfully executed.
You really should start a seperate thread in the projects section, many, many people here will miss it under this thread and that would be a crime.

 

[Chris Knight]

An absolutely fabulous job!!

 

[rileytoolworks]

Oh my God. That is simply the most stunning piece of furniture I think I have ever seen.
I've been staring at it for ages. How did you come up with the concept?
Fantastic. Bravo.

Thanks for sharing this, and as has been said, stick it in the projects section for all to see and admire.


Adam.

 

[jimi43]

Oh my God. That is simply the most stunning piece of furniture I think I have ever seen.
I've been staring at it for ages. How did you come up with the concept?
Fantastic. Bravo.

Thanks for sharing this, and as has been said, stick it in the projects section for all to see and admire.


Adam.

I've stuck the pictures on my desktop to inspire me daily....I still can't get over it and the more I look at it the more I see in it....astounding work.

Jim

 

[woodbloke]

What a truly excellent piece of work...fabulous! - Rob