David charlesworth, cambered blade with a back bevel?

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It is one means of accessing high angle planing that unfortunately requires maintenance at every honing unlike other methods of dealing with difficult stock that do not.

I don't believe anybody is trying to undermine anything as much as put it in its proper place, give it additional color, and put it into perspective.
 
Well you'recertainly entitled to your opinion, just like me I guess. The easiest way to sharpen a blade is freehand and a flat back. Second comes the jig, which gets a bit old after a while. But having to use the jig on both sides gets old real fast. And when you don't want the backbevel anymore it needs a lof of grinding. So the capiron tecnnique is "better" because it doesn't need all the extra steps. I've got nothing against high cutting angles. When you think you need it better to buy a dedicated plane.

And your fingers must be more sensitive then mine. Feeling the wireedge without a backbevel is hard enough.
 
Well, silly me.

I clearly don't understand the following words and phrases;

"disadvantage, sharpening harder, backbevels are a royal pain, endless going back and forth, not a permanent solution, hard to feel the wire edge making sharpening harder".

One spare blade.........

David
 
It's probably best at this point to let Ali back bevel to his heart's content, get tired of it, and move on to a more stable and permanent solution for taming unruly boards.

He'll figure it out for himself sooner or later as I suspect most do.
 
Hello,

There Is no doubt that a closely set capiron is an excellent way of controlling tearout in ornery timber. BUT it is not the only way and preferences are decided on based on a lot of different criteria. Having a single iron plane, for a start, will certainly preclude a close cap iron effect! Just for starters, a super sharp blade is the first desirable thng, but I cannot beleive how many here moan at, "not needing it that sharp, didnt in my granddad's day whaa, whaa!" Well we can now and it demonsterably helps. A very fine mouth goes a long way to controlling tear out. Some people do not want to set the frog forward to close the mouth, I understand the reasoning, if you only have one smoother and don't want to limit the plane to super fine shavings. But some have a few smothers and can dedicate one to a super fine mouth. Or others argue ALL smoothers should have a superfine mouth, because only superfine shavings are removed with them. It is arguable that all plane irons should have a back bevel, at least a ruler trick back bevel, since honing only on the bevel might not remove enough material to get past the wear bevel on the back. It is a valid and logical point of view, not necessarily mine. But a back bevel really isn't hard to, in the scheme of things, lets face it. Knives are sharpened on 2 planes, as are axes and other things, so that argument is moot. If you want to do it, no sweat. Lots of different ways, all work, dependant on the users predilection. Advice on different ways is helpful but continually poo-pooing others methods is a bore.

Mike.
 
"a more stable and permanent solution"

There is a phrase to conjure with.

Poo would be a nice description.
 
David C":3v7rc0ho said:
"a more stable and permanent solution"

There is a phrase to conjure with.

Poo would be a nice description.

It's unfortunate that you've become so wedded to the back bevel.

Inexplicable would be a nice description.

You have a hammer, don't you David, and everything that confronts you is a nail. Back bevels to remove 'wear,' back bevels to hone away the burr, back bevels for difficult stock... I'm sure there must be more.

Obssesed, come to mind.
 
woodbrains":1d4glp1r said:
Hello,

There Is no doubt that a closely set capiron is an excellent way of controlling tearout in ornery timber. BUT it is not the only way and preferences are decided on based on a lot of different criteria. Having a single iron plane, for a start, will certainly preclude a close cap iron effect! Just for starters, a super sharp blade is the first desirable thng, but I cannot beleive how many here moan at, "not needing it that sharp, didnt in my granddad's day whaa, whaa!" Well we can now and it demonsterably helps. A very fine mouth goes a long way to controlling tear out. Some people do not want to set the frog forward to close the mouth, I understand the reasoning, if you only have one smoother and don't want to limit the plane to super fine shavings. But some have a few smothers and can dedicate one to a super fine mouth. Or others argue ALL smoothers should have a superfine mouth, because only superfine shavings are removed with them. It is arguable that all plane irons should have a back bevel, at least a ruler trick back bevel, since honing only on the bevel might not remove enough material to get past the wear bevel on the back. It is a valid and logical point of view, not necessarily mine. But a back bevel really isn't hard to, in the scheme of things, lets face it. Knives are sharpened on 2 planes, as are axes and other things, so that argument is moot. If you want to do it, no sweat. Lots of different ways, all work, dependant on the users predilection. Advice on different ways is helpful but continually poo-pooing others methods is a bore.

Mike.

How many smoothing planes do you own and regularly use Mike?
 
Hello,

Three 4 1/2's, two 4's, a 3 and a few more shop made ones with Hock 'Krenov' double irons. A BU jack that is more of a super smoother. That I own personally. About twice as many again that I maintain for school.

Mike.
 
Man I really wish people could learn that you can give an opinion and make a contribution without trying to tear someone else down at the same time. It feels like some people just get annoyed when they feel their opinion is not as valued as someone elses and it makes them feel invalidated, and they then find it easier to attack others to make their point than to play respectfully. Schoolyard bullies comes to mind...
 
CStanford":x6pn595y said:
David C":x6pn595y said:
"a more stable and permanent solution"

There is a phrase to conjure with.

Poo would be a nice description.

It's unfortunate that you've become so wedded to the back bevel.

Inexplicable would be a nice description.

You have a hammer, don't you David, and everything that confronts you is a nail. Back bevels to remove 'wear,' back bevels to hone away the burr, back bevels for difficult stock... I'm sure there must be more.

Obssesed, come to mind.

Sheesh. If it ain't Derek its David. Its like a hobby for 'ya. :mrgreen:
 
CStanford":k0ugdtf9 said:
Back bevels to remove 'wear,' back bevels to hone away the burr, back bevels for difficult stock... I'm sure there must be more.

Obssesed, come to mind.

Hello,

A simple back bevel does all this and more? I would call such a simple device a panacea, not a pain. Cannot for the life of me see the objection to it.

Mike.
 
There are certainly a few people who think it's a panacea but of course it's not. It's just somebody's pet thing, no different than the other person's pet manufacturer. Unfortunately way overhyped, and actual efficacy always less sensational (new steels, new tools, you name it) than it's made out to be. And all of it in the end does more a disservice when the inevitable disappointment and expectation gaps arise. Difficult crafts like woodworking are almost always like that.
 
CStanford":3g5u4o34 said:
There are certainly a few people who think it's a panacea but of course it's not.

It's just a way to get higher effective pitch in a plane. No big deal, but quite useful when applied appropriately.

BugBear
 
Charles,

You have now been told by of four people that they find back bevels useful. You choose to ignore these facts.

I and others, are fed up with the nasty, repetetive, condescending invective that you specialize in.

How many USA forums have you been banned from?

With a bit of luck you will be banned from this one soon.
 
bobbybirds":1jc3xr50 said:
Man I really wish people could learn that you can give an opinion and make a contribution without trying to tear someone else down at the same time. It feels like some people just get annoyed when they feel their opinion is not as valued as someone elses and it makes them feel invalidated, and they then find it easier to attack others to make their point than to play respectfully. Schoolyard bullies comes to mind...

This is a contribution is worth reading again, play nicely! :wink:

Mick
 
David C":13c4zuga said:
Charles,

You have now been told by of four people that they find back bevels useful. You choose to ignore these facts.

I and others, are fed up with the nasty, repetetive, condescending invective that you specialize in.

How many USA forums have you been banned from?

With a bit of luck you will be banned from this one soon.

As I mentioned in a previous post it is one way to access high angle planing, but would be at least third down on my list of ways to do so for the reasons I mentioned and for those mentioned by Corneel as well. I think that we both perceive it as a bit gimped up in the long run but that's obviously our opinion. That it is your preferred way is quite clear and that you disagree is clear as well.

Cases have been made. What's the big deal and all the upset and talk of banning all about? Should we all just hold hands and sing Kumbaya every time you post?
 
So the assertion made is that bringing the chip breaker very close to the edge negates the
need for a back bevel. How true is this? From experience it does help with planing certain
harder woods, but what about really hard nasty woods?

CStanford":xfeehsd6 said:
David C":xfeehsd6 said:
Charles,

..........................................

Cases have been made. What's the big deal and all the upset and talk of banning all about? Should we all just hold hands and sing Kumbaya every time you post?

I want to see that :D

Ali
 
ali27":8kzgbq0p said:
So the assertion made is that bringing the chip breaker very close to the edge negates the
need for a back bevel. How true is this? From experience it does help with planing certain
harder woods, but what about really hard nasty woods?

Corneel has posted some good material on this.

BugBear
 
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