Coronavirus

[Rorschach]

Depends on how soon the restrictions are lifted. If indeed the current lockdown is simply to slow the spread then once levels have dropped a bit we can lift restrictions, let the virus spread again and continue the march toward herd immunity.

Of course one of the good things about this lockdown is that it is forcing everyone to think about hygiene and disease spread. When restrictions are lifted people will act more carefully than before, naturally slowing the spread.

According to the epidemiologists I have heard the disease will spread far faster than any vaccine will be produced so we might as well all get it. The proposed plans all centre on how deadly the doctor in question thinks it is.

 

[Rorschach]

I can't speak for what's happening in Germany but here in the UK, hospitals are overwhelmed. And that's with lockdown.

Where is your evidence for that? Or are you going on social media hearsay?

 

[RogerS]

I can't speak for what's happening in Germany but here in the UK, hospitals are overwhelmed. And that's with lockdown.

Where is your evidence for that? Or are you going on social media hearsay?

Speaking to friends and relatives in the frontline in hospitals. I also have a copy of the 'clinical guidelines' covering Covid-19 patients in hospital (and no, I'm not going to publish it). It makes very sombre reading...let's leave it at that.

 

[RogerS]

....The proposed plans all centre on how deadly the doctor in question thinks it is.

It is. Anyone who says otherwise is short of a few braincells IMO.

'Deadly' in both the context of (a) bringing forward the death of someone with co-morbidities and (b) killing those who did not have co-morbidities.

'Deadly' because of the sheer number of those in the 20% who require hospital treatment.

'Deadly' because of the extra deaths happening unrelated to Covid-19, because the hospitals are overwhelmed by Covid-19 patients, and so these other people can't get the treatment that they need.

 

[Rorschach]

Ok their hospital might be bad but it certainly does not seem to be the case everywhere, London hospital maybe?
Of course you have to take what staff say with a pinch of salt. I have never yet heard a member of NHS staff say "everything's ok really", they always say "we are 5 minutes from disaster".
Seems to be a personality trait within those who join the emergency services, they see everything as a disaster waiting to happen. I have family and friends in/were in Police, Ambulance, Hospitals and Fire Brigade as well as a few in the civilian side of those services. Those serving are always moaning about how awful stuff is (previous to C19), whereas the civilian staff can't understand what they are talking about even though they are working right there with them. I am not sure if it comes naturally to them, same thing that makes them want to do that job, or whether it is ingrained by those further up to help with their funding requests.
The worst was always the fire service, they were always complaining about everything. A family member was an engineer working on their engines based in a large station. He said they complained bitterly all the time about how underpaid and overworked they were, but they all had side jobs and plenty of time off, some even running a whole business while working. He could never tell if they genuinely thought they had it tough or if they were all in on this facade to get sympathy and maintain good wages.

Sorry slightly off topic there. Anyway, our hospital certainly isn't overwhelmed, they are moderately busy from what we have been told, but a family member is going in for an operation (quite major) next week and went in for pre-surgery scans and tests a few days ago.

 

[Andy Kev.]

Ok their hospital might be bad but it certainly does not seem to be the case everywhere, London hospital maybe?
Of course you have to take what staff say with a pinch of salt. I have never yet heard a member of NHS staff say "everything's ok really", they always say "we are 5 minutes from disaster".
Seems to be a personality trait within those who join the emergency services, they see everything as a disaster waiting to happen. I have family and friends in/were in Police, Ambulance, Hospitals and Fire Brigade as well as a few in the civilian side of those services. Those serving are always moaning about how awful stuff is (previous to C19), whereas the civilian staff can't understand what they are talking about even though they are working right there with them. I am not sure if it comes naturally to them, same thing that makes them want to do that job, or whether it is ingrained by those further up to help with their funding requests.
The worst was always the fire service, they were always complaining about everything. A family member was an engineer working on their engines based in a large station. He said they complained bitterly all the time about how underpaid and overworked they were, but they all had side jobs and plenty of time off, some even running a whole business while working. He could never tell if they genuinely thought they had it tough or if they were all in on this facade to get sympathy and maintain good wages.

Sorry slightly off topic there. Anyway, our hospital certainly isn't overwhelmed, they are moderately busy from what we have been told, but a family member is going in for an operation (quite major) next week and went in for pre-surgery scans and tests a few days ago.

To stay with you slightly off topic, I remember when I was in the Army talking to people who had been involved in providing cover during a strike by both ambulancemen and firemen in (I think) the 80s. The Army got the task and did the obvious thing which was to set up an ops room to coordinate both activities for the obvious reason that where you need the one, you often need the other. It worked efficiently and well and showed up the union led insistence for each of those services to have their own ops rooms to be nothing more than an attempt to preserve out of date practices.

In the end it turned out that the Army's responses had been measurably far more efficient than the normal set up. However, mention of that was effectively banned as the politicians decreed that they had to tread gently with the unions once the strikes were over. I do wonder how much of the whingeing is union led. I also wonder if they ever switched to joint ops rooms. It would save money and improve efficiency.

 

[MikeG.]

We have a family friend who works in a local hospital, and she says they are "eerily quiet". Having cleared the hospital of absolutely everyone they can, and having stopped all elective/ routine cases and outpatients appointments, she says she has never seen the hospital so quiet.

 

[Rorschach]

To stay with you slightly off topic, I remember when I was in the Army talking to people who had been involved in providing cover during a strike by both ambulancemen and firemen in (I think) the 80s. The Army got the task and did the obvious thing which was to set up an ops room to coordinate both activities for the obvious reason that where you need the one, you often need the other. It worked efficiently and well and showed up the union led insistence for each of those services to have their own ops rooms to be nothing more than an attempt to preserve out of date practices.

In the end it turned out that the Army's responses had been measurably far more efficient than the normal set up. However, mention of that was effectively banned as the politicians decreed that they had to tread gently with the unions once the strikes were over. I do wonder how much of the whingeing is union led. I also wonder if they ever switched to joint ops rooms. It would save money and improve efficiency.

Now that's interesting, my father was involved in that, it would be primarily '77 but also '78 and '79. I remember him saying they were very pleased with the service they managed to maintain despite having vastly inferior equipment in the form of Green Goddesses etc. Shame I can't ask him for more details now but I know he maintained a disdain for a lot of the emergency services except ambulance drivers, said they had less of an ego than the rest :lol: .
Police were the worst of course, and getting even worse today.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Police were the worst of course, and getting even worse today.

[/quote]

My son is a Police Officer - he came off a ten hour shift at 6 this morning having had one twenty minute break and having spent most of it dealing with the sudden death of a teenage girl. I'll pass on your supportive comments Rorschach.

 

[Droogs]

I remember doing "The job" when the firemen were on strike in the early 2000's and the cheeky beggers even came round the married quarters looking for signatures for petitions to up their wages. I soon pointed out where they could go and put their petition. Their recruits were earning 7 grand a year more than an army one and in some cases more than a lance corporal. They were refusing to let us cross their picket lines to use the modern kit so we had to use the old Green Goddess along with its antiquated rubbish. He was claiming their job was dangerous and they had people die in service, That was what flipped my switch actually and I soon put him straight. Have no time for them at all now.

 

[RogerS]

Ok their hospital might be bad but it certainly does not seem to be the case everywhere, London hospital maybe?
Of course you have to take what staff say with a pinch of salt. I have never yet heard a member of NHS staff say "everything's ok really", they always say "we are 5 minutes from disaster".
Seems to be a personality trait within those who join the emergency services, they see everything as a disaster waiting to happen. I have family and friends in/were in Police, Ambulance, Hospitals and Fire Brigade as well as a few in the civilian side of those services. Those serving are always moaning about how awful stuff is (previous to C19), whereas the civilian staff can't understand what they are talking about even though they are working right there with them. I am not sure if it comes naturally to them, same thing that makes them want to do that job, or whether it is ingrained by those further up to help with their funding requests.
The worst was always the fire service, they were always complaining about everything. A family member was an engineer working on their engines based in a large station. He said they complained bitterly all the time about how underpaid and overworked they were, but they all had side jobs and plenty of time off, some even running a whole business while working. He could never tell if they genuinely thought they had it tough or if they were all in on this facade to get sympathy and maintain good wages.

Sorry slightly off topic there. Anyway, our hospital certainly isn't overwhelmed, they are moderately busy from what we have been told, but a family member is going in for an operation (quite major) next week and went in for pre-surgery scans and tests a few days ago.

Just because the lockdown has put your personal business in difficulties, you are determined to ignore and belittle any comment that does not fit your very narrow-minded and IMO bigoted perspective.

Simple answer to that - stick you on Ignore.

 

[MikeK]

Police were the worst of course, and getting even worse today.

If someone had asked me yesterday if I could think any less of you because of the rubbish that you spew out, I would have said "no, it's not possible." However, this morning I read this drivel from you and have to adjust my lower level of disdain. Plunk...you are on ignore, but I doubt you will be bothered.

I was a deputy sheriff in Virginia for seven years working in the patrol division. I've seen my share of the horrors that people can do to each other, or to themselves. I don't have to rely on hearsay from others, as you seem to do, to understand what happens in the world. However, those memories pale in comparison to what I've experienced in the past 22 years in this hemisphere before I retired.

 

[Jake]

Ok their hospital might be bad but it certainly does not seem to be the case everywhere, London hospital maybe? [snip tendentious aspertions about emergency services personnel]

London is ahead, but my sister is an ex ICU/HDU nurse who for the last decade or so has been doing colonoscopy instead. She's been called up as of today to work in a new ICU ward created for COVID-19 at her (South Yorkshire) hospital.

So this is very anecdotal, but that hospital has reached its standard capacity and is into surge capacity.

 

[FatmanG]

i honestly am shocked with some of the posts on this thread. the criticism of everyone from the govt to the emergency services from a certain few is beyond a joke take a good look at what youve written and agree that you make me sick.
i for one appreciate every single dr nurse, ambulance, police, firemen/women. to me your brave heroes and i thank you on behalf of myself and my family. =D> =D>

 

[Chris152]

Does anyone have the web address to donate money to Meals for the NHS, as seen this morning on BBC Breakfast? They didn't seem to advertise it.

 

[Rorschach]

Hmmm, I guess they won't see this but my comments about the Police were actually the words of my father.

FWIW though I happen to agree, the sort of people they recruit today are in general terrible, just an excuse to bully (not all, some maintain the old school public service aspirations including a family member who is a good egg).

Do some research, look into the Harry Miller case as a recent example of "Police" work. Also check out the Crimebodge youtube channel and you will see what the Police are becoming.

 

[Droogs]

FatmanG, I feel you have missed the point of my trirade. They (firefighters) were earning almost a 1/3 more than some of the lads I was in command of, who were having to do the firefighters jobs on less money with equipment from the 1940s and without the ability to moan about it or even ask let alone withdrawn their labour for more money. Those young lads were the heroes not the money grabbing pineapples on strike. Not got a problem with any of the medical people they are heroes, far more than anyone else in the land as far as I am concerned and after this they should be given a flaming masshooosif pay raise. infact as far as I am concerned they should be getting the wages of bankers who should get a nurses wage instead

 

[sploo]

Ok their hospital might be bad but it certainly does not seem to be the case everywhere, London hospital maybe? [snip tendentious aspertions about emergency services personnel]

London is ahead, but my sister is an ex ICU/HDU nurse who for the last decade or so has been doing colonoscopy instead. She's been called up as of today to work in a new ICU ward created for COVID-19 at her (South Yorkshire) hospital.

So this is very anecdotal, but that hospital has reached its standard capacity and is into surge capacity.

My other half is West Yorks, but largely confirming the info on this thread. Her colleagues in Italy are basically dealing with the apocalypse, London is heavily loaded, and up north it's not quite that grim yet but most routine work has been shelved, and they're ramping up for COVID-19 support.

Roger's point about the clinical guidelines is sobering too; I can confirm that the info my wife's been receiving is going to mean the frontline doctors will be having to make some pretty awful decisions in the coming weeks (as they already are in the areas most affected).

 

[Rorschach]

Does anyone have the figures for a Nurses wage? I can't work out the details from the nurses.co.uk website as it deals with bands etc.
They don't look too bad to me. Junior doctors have a tough time of it though, I feel sorry for them, not so much the pay as the hours and being forced to move around etc, something definitely needs to change there. Adam Kay's book a rather sobering read on that subject.

 

[Rorschach]

My other half is West Yorks, but largely confirming the info on this thread. Her colleagues in Italy are basically dealing with the apocalypse, London is heavily loaded, and up north it's not quite that grim yet but most routine work has been shelved, and they're ramping up for COVID-19 support.

Roger's point about the clinical guidelines is sobering too; I can confirm that the info my wife's been receiving is going to mean the frontline doctors will be having to make some pretty awful decisions in the coming weeks (as they already are in the areas most affected).

Looks like we are a bit behind here then. Thanks for that info.