Core tool kit

[Jacob]

Humidity low - about 55%, high about 90% - same as indoors. Yes, it's easily fixed - two or three years of relieving it in the winter makes it looser again in the summer.

Yes - there's obviously no issue in the screw direction (as Jacob "Helpfully" points out) but the other direction will obviously end up loose in summer.

It probably doesn't matter, but it's annoying, ...

Sorry I don't follow that. What is annoying - that you have to tighten the screw more in summer? Even if you leave it set all year round I don't think it will come loose in summer. Perhaps check seasonally - at the equinoxes and the solstices perhaps? Or perhaps just stop being silly boys?

 

[Jacob]

....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Stanl ... 2598450d70

56 quid!!

BugBear

Yes but you don't need it. Let the collectors have them. You can get them in boxes of twenty just as good for the same price.
Although looking at that photo - I wonder if Marples have lost the plot. It looks like a square shaft. These are prone to being slack. The conventional rounded D section is self aligning/tightening rather in the same way as the Stanley but less exaggeratedly.

 

[bugbear]

Humidity low - about 55%, high about 90% - same as indoors. Yes, it's easily fixed - two or three years of relieving it in the winter makes it looser again in the summer.

Yes - there's obviously no issue in the screw direction (as Jacob "Helpfully" points out) but the other direction will obviously end up loose in summer.

It probably doesn't matter, but it's annoying, ...

Sorry I don't follow that. What is annoying - that you have to tighten the screw more in summer?

No, I specifically (and clearly, I thought) said there's no issue in that direction :roll: . There might be more of a useful discussion if you didn't deliberately pretend to misunderstand for rhetorical effect.

But in the perpendicular direction, you've got a cross grain situation w.r.t. the head, since the stem grain is not parallel to the grain in the head.

BugBear

 

[Racers]

I am surprised that people buy marking gauges, its only 2 bits of wood and a pin, are you woodworkers or tool buyers?

:wink:

Pete

 

[Jacob]

....

Yes - there's obviously no issue in the screw direction (as Jacob "Helpfully" points out) but the other direction will obviously end up loose in summer.

It probably doesn't matter, but it's annoying, ...

Sorry I don't follow that. What is annoying - that you have to tighten the screw more in summer?

No, I specifically (and clearly, I thought) said there's no issue in that direction :roll: . There might be more of a useful discussion if you didn't deliberately pretend to misunderstand for rhetorical effect.

But in the perpendicular direction, you've got a cross grain situation w.r.t. the head, since the stem grain is not parallel to the grain in the head.

BugBear

Oh right. Er - so, what is the problem exactly? :roll:

 

[David C]

Since the demise of the 5061, wobble in the second dimension, can be eliminated by planing the stick face, opposite the screw, out of square. The screw then twists the stick in the hole to make it firm.

I learned this very useful technique from Colen Clenton. My gauge pins are ground and honed to small crescent shaped knives. Just like his pins. These work very well both long and cross grain. Cutting gauges are reserved for veneer work.

David Charlesworth.

 

[Jacob]

Since the demise of the 5061, wobble in the second dimension, can be eliminated by planing the stick face, opposite the screw, out of square. The screw then twists the stick in the hole to make it firm.

I learned this very useful technique from Colen Clenton. My gauge pins are ground and honed to small crescent shaped knives. Just like his pins. These work very well both long and cross grain. Cutting gauges are reserved for veneer work.

David Charlesworth.

As a rule they are (were) actually made out of square to start with so this problem rarely arises, but is easy to fix if necessary.
I've got a couple of old gauges with pins filed (not by me) as you describe. Looks like a good idea.

 

[bugbear]

As a rule they are (were) actually made out of square to start with

Most old marking and cutting gauges have stems so far "out of square", they're actually a distinctive 'U' cross section. Even the upper face of the 'U' tends to be slightly rounded, so Clenton's (clever) parallogram idea doesn't apply.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

As a rule they are (were) actually made out of square to start with

Most old marking and cutting gauges have stems so far "out of square", they're actually a distinctive 'U' cross section. Even the upper face of the 'U' tends to be slightly rounded, so Clenton's (clever) parallogram idea doesn't apply.

BugBear

It's the same idea.

 

[David C]

The stems I buy from Marples have two parallel faces and two slightly curved ones.

I change the orientation of the pin, slope it and make it visible while I'm at it.

Visible pin very useful for tidy dovetail shoulders.

David

 

[bugbear]

As a rule they are (were) actually made out of square to start with

Most old marking and cutting gauges have stems so far "out of square", they're actually a distinctive 'U' cross section. Even the upper face of the 'U' tends to be slightly rounded, so Clenton's (clever) parallogram idea doesn't apply.

BugBear

It's the same idea.

post165644.html?hilit=%20Clenton%20design%20work%20#p165644

I don't think so at all, but you're welcome to your assertion. Free speech and all that.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

..............
Most old marking and cutting gauges have stems so far "out of square", they're actually a distinctive 'U' cross section. Even the upper face of the 'U' tends to be slightly rounded, so Clenton's (clever) parallogram idea doesn't apply.

BugBear

It's the same idea.

post165644.html?hilit=%20Clenton%20design%20work%20#p165644

I don't think so at all, but you're welcome to your assertion. Free speech and all that.

BugBear

Same principle, different shape.
In any case there must have been millions of woodworkers who have quite independently hit on the idea of making a loose shaft fit better by trimming it. It's not rocket science. In fact I did it myself with no help from anybody! No claim to fame in my opinion.
Interesting that old thread - many long winded attempts to re-design the wheel.

 

[bugbear]

Same principle, different shape.

Perhaps a simple diagram would help the credibility of your (repeated) assertion - I did one for Colin Clenton's clever paralleogram, you can show your version for the normal rounded 'U' stem of most old gauges.

BugBear

 

[Racers]

The old woodies are infallible on oak or anything else.
The selling point of the metal ones seems to be around trivial problems with the wooden sort which anybody might encounter on first use. Given half an hour of practice and these problems disappear forever. But you would never know that if you have gone for an expensive steel one instead, or spent several hours pointlessly modifying one, as is suggested in some quarters.

Same principle, different shape.
In any case there must have been millions of woodworkers who have quite independently hit on the idea of making a loose shaft fit better by trimming it. It's not rocket science. In fact I did it myself with no help from anybody! No claim to fame in my opinion.
Interesting that old thread - many long winded attempts to re-design the wheel.

So infallible you had to modify it, really Jacob do try and keep up with your own propaganda.

Pete

 

[Jacob]

The old woodies are infallible on oak or anything else.
The selling point of the metal ones seems to be around trivial problems with the wooden sort which anybody might encounter on first use. Given half an hour of practice and these problems disappear forever. But you would never know that if you have gone for an expensive steel one instead, or spent several hours pointlessly modifying one, as is suggested in some quarters.

Same principle, different shape.
In any case there must have been millions of woodworkers who have quite independently hit on the idea of making a loose shaft fit better by trimming it. It's not rocket science. In fact I did it myself with no help from anybody! No claim to fame in my opinion.
Interesting that old thread - many long winded attempts to re-design the wheel.

So infallible you had to modify it, really Jacob do try and keep up with your own propaganda.

Pete

Making them work nicely is part and parcel of any tool operation.
The woodies are easy to modify as you wish. I've got several which have been radiussed to go round curves, or shortened to go into rebates, extra pins added to make into a fixed mortice gauge, etc.

 

[Rhossydd]

Making them work nicely is part and parcel of any tool operation.

Not necessarily. It's quite possible to buy good tools that work straight out of the box, then you can just get on with making things.

 

[Jacob]

Making them work nicely is part and parcel of any tool operation.

Not necessarily. It's quite possible to buy good tools that work straight out of the box, then you can just get on with making things.

They don't stay in outa the box condition forever unfortunately. There aren't many tools which won't need attention at some point in their lives. Even a hammer has to have it's face freshened up now and then.

 

[iNewbie]

Making them work nicely is part and parcel of any tool operation.

Not necessarily. It's quite possible to buy good tools that work straight out of the box, then you can just get on with making things.

Don't worry about Jacob's contradictions, they're 'part and parcel' of his schtick...

Posted: 17 Jul 2013, 07:33

"The trouble is there is so much misinformation out there - especially on the sharpening and fettling front - you have to be totally sceptical and work it all out for yourself. Even the humble marking gauge gets a regular knocking - you are supposed to buy a stupidly expensive american novelty version which doesn't work very well or waste hours modifying the one you have got for no apparent reason; to go faster perhaps? Just add stripes - same effect for less effort"

hand-plane-t71915-15.html

 

[Jacob]

One does have to explain things very carefully on here!
It's like this:
1 The humble wooden marking gauge for all normal purposes will work perfectly outa the box and not need any modification, i.e. exactly what I am saying above.
BUT
2 After years of use it may need fettling - as with all tools
AND
3 Being made of wood it is also very suited to modification for special purposes such as curved work.

Hope that helps - please feel free to ask questions - it may seem a stupid one, but somebody out there will be grateful!

 

[bridger]

I guess the game of Jacob-baiting is sort of an official game here at UKW... and played by none quite so well as Jacob himself.