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kevinlightfoot

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Has anyone else been let down by the new formula cascamite?Ive been using cascamite for years and found it reliable,this new formula has let me down twice now.Two edge jointed table tops have opened up,now I could understand one joint,maker error but three or four joints failing are indications that something is wrong.Ive mixed the glue as indicated by the instructions as I've mixed gallons in my time but the remnants left in the mixing receptacle aren't drying like the old stuff,used to dry like glass but now has a rubbery texture,drying temperature has been above 15 degrees and set time more than 24 hours.Got to remake another table top now not cheap in European oak.Think I will be using a different glue this time!
 

Mike Jordan

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I'm still using a tub I purchased about a year back and it's still as good as ever.
Is this problem related to the new descriptions "Polyvine or Polymite" ? I can't see any reason to change the formula of a product that's never failed me in about sixty years of use.
 

CHJ

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Mike Jordan":1sgwuliy said:
I'm still using a tub I purchased about a year back and it's still as good as ever.
Is this problem related to the new descriptions "Polyvine or Polymite" ? I can't see any reason to change the formula of a product that's never failed me in about sixty years of use.
topic119745.html
 

kevinlightfoot

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No, it just says cascamite structural on the bucket,like I say I have been using it for over 50 years never had a problem,it just doesn't seem to mix the same and adhesion is definitely not like it used to be.The tub has only been on the shelf for about 3 months so that shouldn't be a problem,I've just made a new table top and used Gorilla glue,never had a problem with that either,it's just that cascamite means not such a rush on a glue up which is important to me what with being an old codger and not so quick nowadays.Thanks for the replies chaps it's reassuring to know it's not just me having problems,keep us updated Peter with th new glues you are trying out,regards Kevin.
 

CHJ

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My projects are small beer compared to most UKW folks doing cabinet work but current glue ups take 15-20 minutes with 48+ pieces requiring coating before I can clamp firmly, therefore rely very heavily on Original Cascamite working time, even to the point in summer months of having to keep pot mix in chilled water if I try to batch assemble more than one major component.

Finish of joint quality is very much reliant on having no long term creep if wood decides to try and move (we're talking finger feel detection here not visual) I don't know of an adhesive other than Cascamite that would give similar working time or the lack of creep that brittle setting Cascamite does.
 

Hand Plane

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I used some cascamite a few years ago and it was ok. However the next time I used it it didn't mix well, very granular, and the joints failed. I contacted the manufacturer (can't remember who - was there a takeover?) to be told by the lady at the end of the phone I should have used it within two weeks of opening the tub. There was no instruction on the tub to that effect! Haven't used it since.
 

CHJ

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Hand Plane":3k3tgbiu said:
I used some cascamite a few years ago and it was ok. However the next time I used it it didn't mix well, very granular, and the joints failed. I contacted the manufacturer (can't remember who - was there a takeover?) to be told by the lady at the end of the phone I should have used it within two weeks of opening the tub. There was no instruction on the tub to that effect! Haven't used it since.
Normal practise amongst small quantity users such as myself once the main container is opened is to decant the powder into several small airtight containers. This keeps the exposure of the powder to atmospheric moisture to a minimum.
That way, larger more economical purchases of the powder can be economically used over 12 months or more.
 

Mike Jordan

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I only use about 2Kg in a year so I will manage for a while on what I have, but I don't know of a really suitable alternative. I use Titebond11 for some internal jobs and rate it as good, I bought a litre of D4 from tool station and was not truly impressed except with the cheap price. It comes from a big name maker but only lasts six months from date of manufacture, it claims to be fully waterproof after 7 days curing, I've just looked at my bottle after two years of not using it, the contents have turned to a jelly and although it still seems to set, it turns very brown rather than clear. I didn't dare use it when it was new!
I'm looking for a substitute but keeping an eye out for an advert for Cascamite bearing words like old and unimproved, I don't believe it's impossible to reproduce a glue that has been around since the days when it stuck together the Mosquito fighter bomber.
 

MusicMan

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People having trouble might like to try Aerolite, which is the upmarket type based on similar chemistry and used to stick Mosquito bombers together. It has all the properties mentioned. though I think it is more expensive.
 

Phil Pascoe

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Mike Jordan":2hie40ur said:
Can't remember using any of that is it a powder and liquid hardner?
https://www.adkwik.co.uk/aerolite-306-a ... PcEALw_wcB

brilliant stuff, but very expensive. There used to be (maybe still ) sold a rapid hardener for Cascamite - the hardener for one was phosphoric acid, the other formic acid. Iirc the one for Aerolite is phosphoric, but they seemed interchangeable to me, the difference being Cascamite doesn't have to have it added, Aerolite does.
 

CHJ

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MusicMan":1b9v7vym said:
People having trouble might like to try Aerolite, which is the upmarket type based on similar chemistry and used to stick Mosquito bombers together. It has all the properties mentioned. though I think it is more expensive.
Had used this since the 1950's when it was the go to alternate to Hide Glue in school workshop and at work. Not used it since the mid 1960's at home due to cost and the ready availability of cheaper PVA's.
Unfortunately as good as it is I suspect there would be a working time restriction due to its reaction rate for the bits I use Cascamite for, and it's not exactly cheap to trial.


I have just had a a 'Chat' with Adkwik

chas jones 14:12
Assuming mating surfaces are coated , Alternate adhesive/hardener how long a working time would I expect before assembly of say 48 components and their firm clamping. Currently use a Cascamite product that gives me 15-20 mins. assembly time.

Chris 14:13
Hi Chas,
It would be about the same time frame, 15mins handling time.

chas jones 14:16
once mated how critical is time to firm clamping (to ensure minimum joint line) before components grab

Chris 14:17
it's around 15mins once mated.
 

kevinlightfoot

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Thanks for your input and research lads,I think I will try the aerolite,the cost is not too important. The main thing is it's reliability,you don't want glue letting you down.The failures I have had although being a pain are relatively easy to put right but imagine getting let down on something like a staircase build where remake costs could run very high.
 

Mike Jordan

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Cascamite was originally called one shot when made by Borden Chemicals. My concern is the description of "Water Resistant" rather than waterproof.
To my mind resistant means very little when used to refer to glues
 

Yojevol

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CHJ":2ip25ofj said:
Normal practise amongst small quantity users such as myself once the main container is opened is to decant the powder into several small airtight containers. This keeps the exposure of the powder to atmospheric moisture to a minimum.
That way, larger more economical purchases of the powder can be economically used over 12 months or more.
Thanks for that tip. Just bought s 1.5kg tub which fills 5 jam jars nicely.
Have just mixed up and applied the first batch. It's nothing like what I have been used to over the last 20 years. In the past I added a small amount of the water to the powder and after a few seconds a reaction would take place resulting in a creamy paste. This I would add more water to get an acceptable flow. This new stuff does not react like that, it goes into a rather granular paste. I found it rather difficult to spread evenly over the thick veneer I'm glueing. I'll see how it's cured tomorrow morning.
Brian
 

CHJ

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That does not sound encouraging as far as my use Brian, even with a very thin brushed on coat of the original Cascamite mixed to runny honey consistency I get considerable squeeze out,

Hope your veneering works out OK.

As an aside, I went to the expense of buying some D4 to try, although I've no problem with the bond on my test pieces (didn't expect any) Its viscosity and grab as it comes out of the container are certainly a no go for my current methods of assembly and suspect it will result in more visible glue lines when I get to turn test pieces.
I was prepared to have a concerted glue up of blanks to try and salvage as much of the six months recommended shelf life as possible but it looks as though is not going to happen.

Aerolite is not exactly a cheap purchase for trial purposes either.
 

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