Can anyone recommend a decent MiG welder?

[graduate_owner]

Hi everyone, I'm mainly into woodworking, but occasionally use metalworking kit such as milling machine and lathe. I have a stick welder which is great for thick steel, say 3mm upwards, but I'm thinking about a MiG welder for thinner stuff. I suspect I would use it more than my stick welder, but mainly for thin steel or tack welding thick stuff prior to stick welding.

So, does anyone have experience of the Clarke welders that Machine Mart sell. I've been wary of Clarke stuff for a while, and most Clarke stuff I've had has been pretty poor quality. However I understand the Clarke welders are made in Italy, not Chaiwan, and are re-badged Telwin machines which have a decent reputation - so I'm told. I've also been told the wire feed motors on some of these cheap welders are better suited to cheap cassette players than welders.


As it will be for occasional use, I'm reluctant to spend more than about £200. However if £200 buys me rubbish then I'll go to perhaps £250 - £300, or alternatively stay with my stick welder.
Also, is it really expensive to weld with disposable canisters of gas, even for occasional use? Should I bite the bullet and go for the range which takes full size gas bottles?

Any opinions would be much appreciated.

K

 

[Boatfixer]

A line of Vets equipment that I built prototypes for for a mate has taken over most of my workshop time as sales have taken off. The majority were welded up with one of the Clarke Turbo 135 welders which seemed to take everything I could throw at it, running all day welding 5mm plate. If I had not been offered a huge Hobart 3 phase welder at a knock down price I would still be using it daily. The steel fabricators in the next door unit to mine sometimes borrow it if they need a small site welder it is that good.....

I found the small disposable bottles were fine for occasional use. In fact it was a while before I upgraded to the larger hobby gas bottles you can get rent free. Commercial size bottles would be overkill on a small welder and cost a lot with rental. I was told that if I was using 3 disposables a month then it was better to get the hobby gas. If I were you I would give it a try first and see how much you use.

The other thing that has come down in price over the past few years is auto darkening head shields. mine was in the region of £40 from Toolstation and having both hands free to steady the torch without having the head nod to flip the shield down is priceless....

 

[spinks]

you wont go far wront with this set up....light and portable but man enough for what your looking at http://www.welduk.com/Details.asp?ProductID=691 gas, I would recommend a rent free 1/2 size bottle....but as stated before see how much hobby gas you use.

 

[AES]

@ graduate_owner:

I don't have any type of welder (yet - I'm working on SWMBO!) but I've been doing a fair bit of reading on the DIY Mig Welding site. There the name Clark often comes up and 9 times out of 10 it attracts positive comments.

Although you already have a stick welder and therefore probably have the necessary helmet, gloves, etc, from what I read on that site your 200 quid budget may be a bit light by the time you add in gas bottle, regulator, possibly a better torch, and maybe more safety gear, etc.

The link to tghat site is within the "One Stop Reference" links at the very top of this section but to save you looking, here you go.

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/

AES

 

[graduate_owner]

Once again, helpful advice from guys with experience. Many thanks. This forum is really fantastic - so glad I found it.

K

 

[RogerBoyle]

Guys can I ask what is gassless mig welding about
And what type of welder would you guys recommend for some one who has never welded anything in his life before

Roger

 

[Tinbasher]

Gas shielded MIG uses bare wire with the arc shielded by a stream of gas.

Gasless MIG uses a wire coated by a flux which melts and shields the arc. Almost like continuous stick welding.

Gasless is only useful for welding mild steel, with gas shielded you can weld Stainless by using C02 shield gas and Aluminium by using Argon or various gas mixes.

 

[stevep]

Roger, Mig is the easiest to pick up for a complete newcomer to welding. If you are thinking about it though don't buy a gas less one. This process can take even experienced welders a little time to master compared to a solid wire.

 

[marcros]

can you use the gas migs outside though, if there is more than a breath of wind. that has to be an advantage of gasless to me

 

[AES]

That's what I understood too. Purely by reading on that site I linked to, if you need to weld outside and if there's more than a slight breeze at the time, the protecting gas shield will get blown away from the actual melted metal area leading to all sorts of joint problems.

On the other hand, apparently gas in one-time small bottles is very expensive compared to the expense of buying the correct regulator/connector and renting a large bottle and getting it refilled with whatever gas you need (e.g. CO2).

That site I linked to really is a mine of info and seems to attract both professional welders and hobbyists from wannabe to very experienced level.

Krgds
AES

 

[porker]

The Clarke mig welders have a fairly good reputation and I have one of the larger ones (205te) which I have found fine. Before the Clarke I had a SIP machine which was not that good and generally appears to have issues with the wire feed mechanism due to voltage stability but there are a lot of people who have improved their machines with mods. Size will depend on what you want to weld. For car bodywork you need to go down to around 30amps otherwise you will get burn through.
As mentioned before disposable gas is expensive and a canister will only last for a few minutes. You may be able to get a good deal on a bigger cylinder local to you and although initial costs may be high it will work out much cheaper in the long run.
I use argoshield light which is a mix of argon and co2. You can use 'pub gas' co2 which is cheap if you can find a supply but the welds will not be as good. Some people use gassless which needs special wire. The upside is there is no gas to blow away. The downside is that the welds can be splattery.
Some good tutorials on http://www.mig-welding.co.uk

 

[RogerBoyle]

Roger, Mig is the easiest to pick up for a complete newcomer to welding. If you are thinking about it though don't buy a gas less one. This process can take even experienced welders a little time to master compared to a solid wire.

Many thanks

Roger

 

[No skills]

You will only have trouble welding outside on a windy day, a slight breeze can be shielded by your hand (with welding gloves!!!) anything windier than that and you will have to set up a shield (sheet of ply or something) to keep the worst of it off.

For gas bottles get the biggest rentable one you can afford or store if your going to spend any time making things, disposable bottles are an expensive waste of money. We have just gone from argoshield to coogar at work, dont use coogar the bottles dont last anywhere near as long (no we dont have any leaks).

If you can, get a mig that will use a full sized torch - its much more comfortable than the smaller crappy torches that seem the norm on diy welders. And of course their better quality.

 

[Boatfixer]

This was one of the last batches of vets trolleys put together with the little Clarke and disposable bottles - I would have used less than 3 bottles on this lot which is probably less than the monthly rental costs without gas of a commercial bottle. Mind you my present welder would do this lot in half the time but also uses a lot more gas as it has a full 400 amp torch. My suggestion would be if you get a small welder try out using the disposables and see how far you get. If you have a larger torch and welder it will use more gas in which case google hobbyweld - these are larger rent free bottles which are stocked by a lot of motor factors etc and will work out cheaper - you will need to buy a regulator for these.

 

[dickm]

Some more queries relating to Migs.
1. there's a reference to "Hobby" cylinders in one of the posts. What are these? I've only encountered the standard waist high or larger cylinders that need a mortgage to rent them from BOC, or the tiny disposables that don't last more than minutes on my SIP 140.

2. Since the BOC rental was prohibitive, I handed in my BOC Argoshield cylinder (and the bar-stewards charged me an extra month because it was returned on the 1st of the month, not the last day of the one before :evil: ). Got a new small regulator for disposables, but the setup was immediately borrowed by S-in-law. Got it back from him and went to do a job today, but the regulator does not seem to link to the shut-off valve in the end of the disposable. Should there be something like the pin on a Schraeder valve connector in the regulator to push in the shut-off? (and if so, where has it gone............??????)

3. Does anyone deal with Adamsgas? There's an agent just opened up near here, and it looks just about affordable for occasional use.

 

[Boatfixer]

1:- Hobbyweld - http://www.hobbyweld.co.uk/
2 :- I have not got one in front of me but yes - the regulator should open the bottle valve. I seem to remember the pin was part of the bottle valve and the regulator screwed down on it to push it open. I can have a look if I get to my shop tomorrow
3 :- No but they seem to be either an agent for Hobbyweld or offering a very similar product...

 

[marcros]

what is the typical price for a cylinder of hobbyweld 5 for instance?

 

[Aled Dafis]

I may be a little late to the party, but this website/forum is excellent for those new to welding

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/

and is supported by a very reputable supplier - Weldequip - No connections, nor have I used them personally, but all reports are good. Their cheapest machine is a Clarke 160TM, which by all accounts is pretty decent for the money.

As mentioned above, I'd go for a machine with a proper "Euro" torch as they're far more durable and have a ready supply of consumables.

Personally, I use R-Tech Welding for all my welding kit/supplies at school (3xMIG's, 3xMMA's and an AC/DC TIG) and the service they provide is absolutely first class!! Unfortunately their machines are a little above your £2-300 budget.

However, if you're just going to be occasionally welding steel of 3mm and thicker, there's nothing wrong with an MMA welder, the modern inverter welders are amazing value, very compact and have almost no running overheads.

From my experience, the small disposable gas bottles are a complete waste of money, they have at most 15-20 minutes welding time. The Adams gas bottles are probably the best value for the hobbyist/occasional user, at around £40 deposit for the bottle (it's a while since I bought one though) and then about £30-40 for a refill. Bear in mind though that the Adams gas bottles are only filled to about 100Bar, whereas BOC fill to over 200Bar and thus last a lot longer (at a price of course, I think that we pay around £10 per month per bottle for rental and then around £80-100 fr a refill of Argshield Light).

Aled

 

[Aled Dafis]

I forgot to add that standard pub gas (CO2) is also useable and very cheap, but makes welding a little more difficult and results in lower quality welds.

 

[graduate_owner]

So is there a difference between pub gas and welding CO2, perhaps in the purity? Or is welding CO2 actually a mix of CO2 and Argon, with the Argon making the difference?

K