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thetyreman

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I am not a big fan of phone cameras except they are good for video, much prefer a non mirrorless DSLR like the original Canon 5D mk1, and I love my zeiss planar T 50mm f1.4 my favourite lens by far, even with good lighting there's a noticeable difference between my phone camera and my DSLR.
 

Ollie78

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If you find something to photograph - and take a photo with both 5D (an old but good camera), and your phone - then put them both up next to each other - what are you seeing that is different?

Even contemporary Canon and Nikon cameras had a different look / feel - so all devices will have differences - though you can to a certain extent impose your own perspective on the photos in post-processing (e.g. lightroom)

I used to teach photography, and would run a 2 hour session where people would come with any device / camera - and it was amazing how much improvement they could see in two hours with no regard to the specific device - so nothing to do with changing lenses / settings - everything to do with how you use light / how you build the composition / how you catch the moment / angles of view / times of day / etc...

So, I do agree, there is still something about a proper camera - but if you do some digging into photos on a mobile - it is stunning the shots people do get...
It's an illusive something. I have never done a shot for shot comparison to test this out exactly. Personally I think it's something to to with the lense. I will have to get it out and do a test.

I occasionally get a really good shot on my phone, a Samsung but my old Huawei was better.
With the Canon I would get mostly decent shots.
I realise I could do some post production but I don't have photoshop anymore ( or much time or skill)
I notice this when trying to photograph my woodwork, though I realise lighting and stuff are important.
My brother helped me once and brought his lights and a pro level Canon, only good shot of my work I have, still.

Ollie
 
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thetyreman

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can't say I agree with him at all, try looking at a photo from an iphone, then one taken on a 5D zeiss lens or lecia on a calibrated monitor and you will see big differences, the optical quality just isn't there on a phone, they lack the boken creaminess and insane (almost 3D) contrast and detail that an amazing lens can provide.
 

Jameshow

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can't say I agree with him at all, try looking at a photo from an iphone, then one taken on a 5D zeiss lens or lecia on a calibrated monitor and you will see big differences, the optical quality just isn't there on a phone, they lack the boken creaminess and insane (almost 3D) contrast and detail that an amazing lens can provide.
I agree,

I tried to take a sunset picture the other night a glorious red mingled with the broken cloud and the Pennine wind turbines silhouetted on the horizon the phone did a poor job tbh. Didn't capture the colours at all. Not enough light in the sensor I fear.

Cheers James
 

Ttrees

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But how many videos do you need to make before you can get used to most of the camera's features, whilst worrying about making a video at the same time?

I've seen a few youtubes where people got hurt, and guessing some percentage of that might have been to do with more focus on the camera than the tool.
You paid for it, you wanna get your moneys worth out of it kinda thing.

Or the opposite case, and the camera gets placed in a spot and ignored,
I made a video before hand planing 7' long timbers, and tried to stay out of the shot.
A lot of it couldn't be heard, which I'm not great at anyway at the best of times
and mainly focused on my posterior for twenty minuets :D
Realtime, that is about the most difficult video one could make.
No lighting, no microphone, no cameraman, staying out of the shot, and whatever else I haven't figured out yet.
Not as easy as it looks that whole youtube craic!


Maybe easier if one frequently cuts videos, includes warm introductions and sections lending themselves for retakes which might tie all in together,
and not real time video without much friendliness or any script which might not come across as clearly.

If doing things on the fly, then worth practicing, which might include re-making, which is likely rare
that the second video is not better than the first, as chances are it makes for a more condensed
rundown/script should one not be great at presenting.

I think near any good camera can tell you what you need to know, and possibly even likely to make basic things like lighting more apparent, instead of being confused with camera settings.

Jump in and have a go, it might just make some things nicer in the workshop, should you do what the camera wants, you could end up with some good spotlights if you don't have some already.
Those super bright overhead lighting setups that many have cast a shine on everything, and don't lend themselves well to hand tool work either IMO.
Haven't used this boom for the camera work yet, but it might come in handy someday,
(I have the same type movable lamp on the movable bench which has proven beneficial for the camera)

SAM_4902.JPG




Tom
 

ian33a

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I have a Lumix FZ200 - very old technology now. Most of the time I use the camera on my Samsung S8. Very decent pictures for a phone, also quite old technology now.

I rarely use the Lumix as it has to be carted around, even though it is light and small compared to the Nikons and Olympus cameras that I had before.

When I do use it I'm constantly reminded how much better it is to use, especially with the optical zoom.

When I'm out with the S8, on a sunny day, and all I can see on the screen is a reflection of my ugly face, and not the image that I wish to capture, I wish I had the electronic viewfinder on the FZ200.

You can pay over the top for a camera and, a bit like cars, hi-fi, bikes, watches and goodness knows what else, small incremental improvements cost a lot of money. What makes a camera different is that, unless the composition is spot on, a high end camera adds very little to the overall result.
 

Sandyn

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Photography is different for different people. There are so many different types of photography and photographer.
You get technical photographers, who look for the sharpest image, best exposure, perfect focus, perfect colour, but may not worry too much about composition or lighting. Then you get the artistic photographer who likes to capture subjects, good composition, good lighting, but don't worry about image sharpness, or colour. They may use under/over exposure to enhance the lighting and composition.
A really good photographer can take good pictures with any type of camera, even a pinhole camera. It is about understanding light and composition. You either have it or you don't. I don't, but I can still take OK pictures........and some rubbish ones.
 

Jameshow

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Photography is different for different people. There are so many different types of photography and photographer.
You get technical photographers, who look for the sharpest image, best exposure, perfect focus, perfect colour, but may not worry too much about composition or lighting. Then you get the artistic photographer who likes to capture subjects, good composition, good lighting, but don't worry about image sharpness, or colour. They may use under/over exposure to enhance the lighting and composition.
A really good photographer can take good pictures with any type of camera, even a pinhole camera. It is about understanding light and composition. You either have it or you don't. I don't, but I can still take OK pictures........and some rubbish ones.
Yeap that's me! All the tools and no idea! More so than woodworking!!
 

Nelly111s

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My only advice would be to find your local camera shop and walk in there. You may come out enlightened. It’s likely that there is a small “family owned “ shop in your locality.
Don’t buy from Amazon.
 

accipiter

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Doubtful you'll find one camera to do all - they all have their limitations. Maybe a search for a "Vlogging" camera etc., would find what you want. Something like the Sony RX100 range?

With my Nikon D810 I usually found I didn't have the right lens on *at the right time* to capture something that came about *in those moments* for a special capture. Wide angle for a fantastic looking landscape or sunrise/sunset when I had the 150-500mm attached as I was going for wildlife... OR the other way round - 15mm, 21mm or 24mm-70mm when a hawk or deer etc., came in to view and needed the long lens... Sods law. I also got fed up of lugging all the gear of interchangeable lenses around with me.

I did give the Sony RX10 mk 4 a go having seen fantastic images taken by others and all the built in bells and whistles - 24mm-600mm equivalent lens, high frame rate, video up to 29 minutes, slow mo etc., but mine turned out to be a lemon. Sony couldn't fix it but the company I purchased from did a FULL refund and paid return postage back to them. Because of their customer service I have NO hesitation in recommending Panamoz, an online company selling all types of brands and camera models at extremely good prices if you want to go for new.

Have fun ☺👍

DSLRs have the video limitations because of the "type" of camera they are. If longer than 29 or 30 minutes video then they'd have to be classed as video cameras and paid for accordingly as far as taxes etc., instead of as film/dSLR - digital single lens reflex.
 
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paulrbarnard

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Doubtful you'll find one camera to do all - they all have their limitations. Maybe a search for a "Vlogging" camera etc., would find what you want. Something like the Sony RX100 range?

With my Nikon D810 I usually found I didn't have the right lens on *at the right time* to capture something that came about *in those moments* for a special capture. Wide angle for a fantastic looking landscape or sunrise/sunset when I had the 150-500mm attached as I was going for wildlife... OR the other way round - 15mm, 21mm or 24mm-70mm when a hawk or deer etc., came in to view and needed the long lens... Sods law. I also got fed up of lugging all the gear of interchangeable lenses around with me.

I did give the Sony RX10 mk 4 a go having seen fantastic images taken by others and all the built in bells and whistles - 24mm-600mm equivalent lens, high frame rate, video up to 29 minutes, slow mo etc., but mine turned out to be a lemon. Sony couldn't fix it but the company I purchased from did a FULL refund and paid return postage back to them. Because of their customer service I have NO hesitation in recommending Panamoz, an online company selling all types of brands and camera models at extremely good prices if you want to go for new.

Have fun ☺👍

DSLRs have the video limitations because of the "type" of camera they are. If longer than 29 or 30 minutes video then they'd have to be classed as video cameras and paid for accordingly as far as taxes etc., instead of as film/dSLR - digital single lens reflex.
Tax on video cameras ended two years ago…. The only reason for limits now is manufactures wanting to protect different camera lines.
 

eribaMotters

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I gave up on SLR's many years ago as I did printing my own prints. I'd started off with a Fujica STX1 moving on through Olympus OM1 and Nikon FM. I had a collection of Tamron and Signa lenses with the later. I then got fed up of lugging the kit around and when compact digital. At present I have a Panasonic Lumix, my third, and I think the closest match current model is a DC-TZ90.
Unless you are doing photography as a living or a hobby in itself I cannot see a need for anything more complex or expensive. A camera such as The Panasonic mentioned will do everything you could ever require.

Colin
https://www.johnlewis.com/panasonic-lumix-dc-tz90-super-zoom-digital-camera-4k-ultra-hd-20-3mp-30x-optical-zoom-wi-fi-evf-3-inch-lcd-tiltable-touch-screen/p3242637
 

accipiter

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Spectric

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Used to be well into landscape photography and lugged a lot of kit all over the show including a fairly heavy but very sturdy Gitzo tripod and eventually came to the conclusion that it had a lot in common with fishing, patience is a virtue and you cannot guarantee success. What also really bugged me was that if I was out without the kit many photo opportunities would arise but carry the gear and they all hid. I think the latest Nikon camera's have a lot more stops than what my camera had and so much better in getting the fluffy clouds and details in the shadows without having to take multiple shots and blend later.
 

bp122

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I'm going against what most people here are suggesting, purely because of my experience.

Yes, phones are good these days. Especially if you want just some photos of family or selfies when you are on holiday, phones are fine. If you want to take a video of your kid running around, even better.

BUT, if you want to enjoy photography as a serious hobby, phones are not it I'm afraid. They are frustrating, limited and actually a lot of faff if you want to take photos with shallower depth (yeah, that background blurr feature isn't fooling anyone!)

Not a bad idea going for mirrorless for future proofing etc, but even in mirrorless just like everywhere else, it depends on what you are willing to spend.

I have a Nikon Pro DSLR kit, every single item in the kit except the memory cards and flash batteries, I bought used.

I started buying used gear from this website called mpb.com. Guaranteed quality used gear with no hassle returns. Checkout their stuff before buying anything brand new.

Once I got better at judging the used stuff, I have bought from eBay, gumtree, Preloved -the lot. Of course, you can get the best in the century black Friday or cyber Monday deal, but you won't beat the used market.

For the same cost outlay, you can end up with professional or serious amateur used gear or you can get a mediocre entry to mid level (at best) brand new gear.

If you are going down the interchangeable lens route within yours or a modest budget, DSLR is still king because of the following reasons:
1. Mainstream companies (canon, Nikon) have been making lenses for ages. I can stick a Nikkor f1.2 55mm lens (from 1960s) on my d750 and get superb mural quality prints. Mirrorless cameras either need adapters to work with these established lenses or you have to buy mirrorless lenses, once again expensive.

2. There is tons of support and user experience and customer base for DSLRs, so the repairs and aftermarket support is nothing to worry about

3. I have small to medium hands but long fingers and I cannot for the life of me get a comfortable grip on smaller mirrorless cameras. So, this may be a small concern for you but for me it is a big deal

4. DSLRs are cheap. I saw an olderd slr the other day for £20. That may not get you on the cover of BBC, but for under £500 you can get some superb cameras. Same with lenses


On eBay, right now, you can get a full frame Nikon d750 for £600-£700, an equivalent middle to Hong end mirrorless will cost you twice that. Same with lenses. You can get a wide angle zoom, a non-pro telephoto and a 50mm lens for £400-£600, no chance of that with mirrorless.

Once again, this is if you want to get serious about the hobby and. If it is just pure joy of taking photos for memories, travelling light, and not wanting to enter contests or printing big, then a good high end compact is much better because you don't have the faff about changing lenses.

Coming back to phones, they aren't easy to operate if you want to change certain settings. The reason most pro photography gear (DSLR or mirrorless) cost that much are:
1.Quality of optics and features (not always necessarily the sensor as same or near quality sensors are found in lower end cameras most of the times)
2. The ease of controls to find the settings without moving your eye out of the viewfinder
3. Build quality to withstand a pro's work environment and service

In conclusion,
1. Go for a good phone if you want to travel light, photos of people and travels and videos and not wanting to print big.
2. If you don't want to use the phone but still retain the criteria above, go for a good compact
3. If you want to wow prior with your photos and are a perfectionist or want to print your photos big or enter contests, go for a pro or semi pro setup (mirrorless if you have the Dosh)
4. If you want the above but in a budget, a used DSLR plus some surprisingly cheap lenses that people wouldn't look at twice (because they don't know what they don't know, there are some lenses that sell for as little as £40 but give you results like they cost £600)

In a few years time we all will be shooting mirrorless, but now, DSLRs are cheaper overall to get amazing photos
 
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Jameshow

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I'd look at something adequate but affordable even second hand for woodworking tbh. Dusty and hostile environment for a camera.

Something like a Panasonic GX or G camera or tz if you want to use it out and about.

Cheers James
 

paulrbarnard

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It's been some time since I did photography in Ernest as a hobby/pastime so you may well be correct in what you say.

After I posted above - and before your reply - I did a search and came across this from 2020:
This Agreement on trade in IT products approved by EU is a press release when it was introduced and in here it says tariffs will start to be removed in 2018. The majority of cameras introduced in the last couple of years no longer have a record limit. The exceptions being those that overheat….
I read an article about two years ago saying the video limit tax was removed but of course am unable to find the article now. It was probably on DPReview but their search function is terrible.
 

accipiter

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This Agreement on trade in IT products approved by EU is a press release when it was introduced and in here it says tariffs will start to be removed in 2018. The majority of cameras introduced in the last couple of years no longer have a record limit. The exceptions being those that overheat….
I read an article about two years ago saying the video limit tax was removed but of course am unable to find the article now. It was probably on DPReview but their search function is terrible.
Thanks Paul. The link goes to a press release dated 17th June 2016... and, with photography/videography not being my main interest anymore, I've not enough interest in the subject to search/read through the EU archives to find the 2018 mention, sorry. I never found them the easiest in the past when trying to do so... along the lines of your views re DPReview search function I fear. I appreciate your time in searching to find it and post for me and others though - thanks.

If I was more into photography - and videography with a dSLR or other camera system - then it would possibly be different.
 

jonn

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I am not a big fan of phone cameras except they are good for video, much prefer a non mirrorless DSLR like the original Canon 5D mk1, and I love my zeiss planar T 50mm f1.4 my favourite lens by far, even with good lighting there's a noticeable difference between my phone camera and my DSLR.
Just always remember it is the person BEHIND the camera who makes the picture! We are inundated with happy-snaps, the brainless selfies, and silly group photos. But the cameras seem to master situations in such minima light that one who used film is still amazed. And it seems like the art of composition in photography is mostly something of the past. So when my Samsung Note 3 packed it in as a phoene, it remains a damned good camera. So much so that all my Nikon equipment is mostly collecting dust. Very sad indeed ☹
 

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