Bust up coming

[devonwoody]

Virgin media sent me an online invoice this morning for £110, they are attempting to charge me an extra £75 for changing my account details, I reduced my services from them last month.

Knowing how difficult it is to deal with this company and accounting I suspect I will have to stop my direct debit to ensure they dont make this charge .

Nice knowing you lot if you know what I mean. :wink:

 

[matt]

I think you'll find that stopping your DD will not stop them taking the charge... Some weirdness in the DD world allows them to continue. They do, however, have to have your agreement to take the funds so suggest you forbid them to do so.

 

[devonwoody]

Of which they of course will ignore and continue to take the money and having had past transactions with this company it can be very difficult.

I think the last time I did somehow get the bank to cease payment, until the dispute was settled.

 

[Karl]

I think you'll find that stopping your DD will not stop them taking the charge... Some weirdness in the DD world allows them to continue. They do, however, have to have your agreement to take the funds so suggest you forbid them to do so.

If you cancel a DD mandate with your bank, the company to whom the DD was granted can no longer claim funds under that DD, as you have withdrawn your consent.

I had a dispute with my mobile provider and cancelled the DD mandate. They quickly resolved the problem!

Cheers

Karl

 

[matt]

I think you'll find that stopping your DD will not stop them taking the charge... Some weirdness in the DD world allows them to continue. They do, however, have to have your agreement to take the funds so suggest you forbid them to do so.

If you cancel a DD mandate with your bank, the company to whom the DD was granted can no longer claim funds under that DD, as you have withdrawn your consent.

I had a dispute with my mobile provider and cancelled the DD mandate. They quickly resolved the problem!

Cheers

Karl

You have to tell the company they no longer have your consent. Cancelling the DD does not do that - it's almost a nonsense that the banks allow you to cancel a DD because it creates the impression that you have control. Clearly in your case it did work but, strictly speaking, it should not and, in my case, did NOT. The company CAN still claim funds - I've had the explained to me exhaustively by my bank for obvious reasons.

You can, however, asked for funds to be refunded to your account without giving a reason...

 

[devonwoody]

OK, virgin accounts admit a mistake, so I requested a new online invoice, they will not give me one until May when the overcharge of £75 will be shown as credited.

Do you think I can rely on them not taking the overcharge the first of April without doing anything more.

I still think I have got to be able to instruct the bank to ignore any charge above £42. (there is another charge of £3 which I am too exhausted to argue about)?

 

[cambournepete]

Yes - they've done that with me before.

 

[Karl]

Sorry Matt, but I think you've been led up the garden path.

"You can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by contacting your bank or building society. We also recommend you notify the organisation concerned."

Quoted from the BBA website Direct Debit Guarantee wording.

Cheers

Karl

 

[TrimTheKing]

I am no expert but my personal experiences are pointing toward Karl being correct. I have cancelled DD's by accident before and within minutes of them trying to take my money been notified and told that they were refused, every time.

A DD mandate, in my understanding, is your consent to allow any 3rd party to take your money on a regular basis without question from the bank. They can also take however much they like because it isn't like a standing order where it's a fixed amount each month, it is up to you as the account holder to police whether they take the correct amount each month. So cancelling the DD is withdrawing your consent. The bit about notifying the 3rd party was explained to me as being nothing more than a courtesy so they know what's happened.

Like I say, I'm no expert but this is my experience and on the 5 or 6 occasions I have had course to either cancel or accidentally delete a DD it has stopped the recipient withdrawing cash on 100% of those occasions.

 

[matt]

Well it's good to hear that it has worked in the way I thought it should, despite my experience to the contrary.

 

[TrimTheKing]

Well it's good to hear that it has worked in the way I thought it should, despite my experience to the contrary.

Banks are generally a law unto themselves, so who knows how it should work

 

[RogerS]

OK, virgin accounts admit a mistake, so I requested a new online invoice, they will not give me one until May when the overcharge of £75 will be shown as credited.

Do you think I can rely on them not taking the overcharge the first of April without doing anything more.

I still think I have got to be able to instruct the bank to ignore any charge above £42. (there is another charge of £3 which I am too exhausted to argue about)?

They will take the £75. I put money on it.

Do they have an Indian call centre? I'm still battling with Demon but at least I am now talking to the customer service manager. They have just double direct debited us and many other customers.

 

[Mike.C]

I think you'll find that stopping your DD will not stop them taking the charge... Some weirdness in the DD world allows them to continue. They do, however, have to have your agreement to take the funds so suggest you forbid them to do so.

If you cancel a DD mandate with your bank, the company to whom the DD was granted can no longer claim funds under that DD, as you have withdrawn your consent.

I had a dispute with my mobile provider and cancelled the DD mandate. They quickly resolved the problem!

Cheers

Karl

Karl is perfectly correct, from the minute you stop your direct debit your bank will not pay any demands. Read your DD and this should tell you. The only time that things can go wrong and money still be taken from your account, is if you cancel it over the phone, by letter, or going into your bank and the person dealing with the problem takes their time to authorize the request.
If you have put it in writing and the bank does pay the company, they have to reimburse you.

I know that a lot of people do not like doing internet banking, but I swear by it for things like this, because I can go on there and within seconds delete and so cancel the DD.

If a company takes to much money by mistake, my bank will immediately reimburse it and then reclaim it from the company.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Mike.C]

OK, virgin accounts admit a mistake, so I requested a new online invoice, they will not give me one until May when the overcharge of £75 will be shown as credited.

Do you think I can rely on them not taking the overcharge the first of April without doing anything more.

I still think I have got to be able to instruct the bank to ignore any charge above £42. (there is another charge of £3 which I am too exhausted to argue about)?

I am with Roger they will almost certainly take the extra money. If I was you I would ask them again for a new invoice and if they refuse cancel the DD, and you can be sure that if you do it now (with plenty of time before Aprils payment is due) they will contact you with the invoice you want. They may even think that you are going to leave them and offer a nice incentive to stay.

Good luck

Mike

 

[matt]

I know that a lot of people do not like doing internet banking, but I swear by it for things like this, because I can go on there and within seconds delete and so cancel the DD.

Yep - that's exactly what I did. Further research suggests that there is a difference between paper based DD set-ups and those created electronically (i.e. without signature). The latter seems to place more onus on the payer whereas the former places more onus on the payee. Each attract a slight variation in level of protection for the payer. Quite possibly goes some way to explain the differing experiences.

All conveniently confusing!

 

[studders]

You might find that they can/might/will take the money but.... under the terms of the DD they are taking money they are not entitled to if you have cancelled it, and have to repay it. How long that might take is anyones guess.

Forgot to add, any leeway in the interpretations re DD's might be down to the individual staff getting things wrong. When I went into my Bank to cancel a DD the girl said I had to do it in writing and give a reason for cancelling. :roll: :roll:
Which was total rot on both counts.

 

[Mike.C]

I know that a lot of people do not like doing internet banking, but I swear by it for things like this, because I can go on there and within seconds delete and so cancel the DD.

Yep - that's exactly what I did. Further research suggests that there is a difference between paper based DD set-ups and those created electronically (i.e. without signature). The latter seems to place more onus on the payer whereas the former places more onus on the payee. Each attract a slight variation in level of protection for the payer. Quite possibly goes some way to explain the differing experiences.

All conveniently confusing!

Thanks Matt, I will look into that to make sure I am protected if I do need to cancel another DD. :wink:

You might find that they can/might/will take the money but.... under the terms of the DD they are taking money they are not entitled to if you have cancelled it, and have to repay it. How long that might take is anyones guess.

Forgot to add, any leeway in the interpretations re DD's might be down to the individual staff getting things wrong. When I went into my Bank to cancel a DD the girl said I had to do it in writing and give a reason for cancelling.
Which was total rot on both counts.

Steve if they take my money can I hire you as a rent a thug? And if flexing the muscles does not put the frighteners on them, will you give them a few slaps :wink:

Cheers

Mike

 

[studders]

will you give them a few slaps :wink:

Cheers

Mike

These days Mike the best I can muster is a 'Jolly stern Look', frightens the young uns' no end.

 

[Mike.C]

will you give them a few slaps :wink:

Cheers

Mike

These days Mike the best I can muster is a 'Jolly stern Look', frightens the young uns' no end.

I know how you feel mate. I mean its a bit embasassing when some drunken young punk laughs at you when you tell him to water off and stop singing at the top of his voice at 3am :roll: I was foaming at the mouth and all for chasing him down the road and kicking his bleeding head in, but the wife took my walking stick away :lol: :lol:

Cheers

Mike

 

[frugal]

There is also a difference between a Direct Debit and a Continuous Authority Mandate, which is the Credit Card version of a DD. I had set up a CAM to pay the AA annual by credit card. 9 months after I closed my credit card account I received a statement with a single transaction from the AA on it. I queried this with the bank because as far as I was concerned the account was closed and was informed that merely closing the account was not sufficient to stop a CAM and that I could not instruct the credit card company to stop it, instead I must go to the AA and get them to cancel it from their end, but in the mean time I would need to pay the outstanding balance on my card. It is a good job that I had not moved house in that 9 months...