British Woodworking magazine offer

[Johnboy]

my 2p worth.

1. Good luck to Nick with the magazine, I have ordered a copy to give it a try.

2. I agree with Alf comments.

John

 

[Anonymous]

OK on topic.
Part of the reason (in addition to Alf's comments) about the slightly peevish reaction to Nick's post is the presumption in the title: British woodworking.
Will it really cover the British woodworking scene in any comprehensive way?
A more truthful title might be "N Gibbs and his Advertising Associates Woodworking".
Not entirely facetious, it's important.
For instance I bought a copy of "Traditional Woodworking" a long time ago, trad woodworking being my thing. It had an article about biscuit jointing (or something similarly naff I can't remember, might have been honing jigs) which put me right off immediately as it was not what was indicated by the cover, and I haven't bought one since. I don't know if it lived up to it's title in other issues but I guess not.
Had it been called "Shedman" or "Gibberings from the Shed" I would have expected less but perhaps have bought it a 2nd time.

cheers
Jacob

 

[Anonymous]

something similarly naff I can't remember, might have been honing jigs) which put me right off immediately as it was not what was indicated by the cover, Jacob

Yes, that's right jacob, it must be at least 6 months(or is it longer) now since you stopped using those 'naff' Stanley and Eclipse honing guides.

Monday 6th november 2006 you posted that you'd just stopped using them

I think I've found out how to sharpen chisels at last! It's taken 40 years.

A more open mind might reveal that some magazines contain useful information for eveybody in at least one of their articles. Of course, not everyone enjoys every article, but then we are not all the same.

Who knows? maybe the next edition of trad Woodworker had an article on sharpening without a honing guide. (no idea as I have never bought it)

Why don't you write an article for trad woodworking that is more in line with your own interests?

 

[ByronBlack]

Thats a good suggestion Tony, I'm sure Jacob - you could knock up an interesting article, your information on rods was gratefully received, and this is something that I don't think i've ever seen in a magazine! Get submitting! The money you earn you could put towards a nice set of Lie Nielsen Dovetail Chisels (just joking)

 

[Nick Gibbs]

OK on topic.
Part of the reason (in addition to Alf's comments) about the slightly peevish reaction to Nick's post is the presumption in the title: British woodworking. Will it really cover the British woodworking scene in any comprehensive way? A more truthful title might be "N Gibbs and his Advertising Associates Woodworking".

I thought I'd answered this already. We hope to focus on:
1. British craftsmanship/design
2. British innovation and resourcefulness in tools and making
3. British native timber
4. British woodworkers
5. British information (forums, books, websites, catalogues etc...)

But not at the exclusion of what's going on around the world and equipment that comes in from other countries because we have to reflect the experience of woodworkers. How the balance is struck will depend on how the magazine shapes up over the first year or so.

I could produce a fascinating magazine full of articles about what's going on in Britain's woodworking scene. I have some great stories I want to run. But if I do that I'll only get comments that there aren't enough projects or tips or tests or techniques.

I am not in the advertisers' pockets, and never have been. Remember, I was the first person to introduce comparative testing to British woodworking magazines. There is a lot of advertising in the first issue, mainly because I gave much of it away free as a gesture of goodwill to the industry and to kickstart the magazine and to make an impression and to show my commitment. Who knows if that was a mistake or not.

Them's the risks you take, and I only hope people will view this attempt to provide something new for woodworkers with an open mind.

 

[ByronBlack]

Nick, I appreciate your willinges to respond in this thread, and I think overtime that is the best way to develop a relationship with this forum and a chunk of your readership.

I personally stopped buying magazines a while ago in favour of the amazing amount of information that exists in the brains of these forum members, and other online resources. For a beginner, most magazines are rather boring, with an over emphasis on tool reviews (almost always cheap power tools) and not enough on terminology, technique and approach. (IMO)

Despite the number of mags available, I don't think most are up to scratch and unfortunatly I have to put GWW in that bracket even though it regularly features members of this forum; who ulimately provide IMO the most interesting articles amongst a lot of 'filler' - again thats just my humble opinion.

At the end of the day despite your approach and the hoo-harr that this thread has caused, i'm sure most of us will give your first issue a fair read. And decide from there on, good luck F&C needs a competitor at the top.

 

[A_n_g_e_l_a]

Again - Please keep on-topic. ... and Tony's request has been ignored...

something similarly naff I can't remember, might have been honing jigs) which put me right off immediately as it was not what was indicated by the cover, Jacob

Yes, that's right jacob, it must be at least 6 months(or is it longer) now since you stopped using those 'naff' Stanley and Eclipse honing guides.

Monday 6th november 2006 you posted that you'd just stopped using them

I think I've found out how to sharpen chisels at last! It's taken 40 years.

Tony's request ignored? I can't begin to guess why. :roll:

 

[Scrit]

......information on rods...... ...... is something that I don't think I've ever seen in a magazine!

Maybe you should read some books, then? :lol:

The information is widely available and is covered in any half-decent (i.e. not American, filled with glossy photographs, etc) text book on joinery/carpentry. I'd ask the question whether or not such things should appear in magazines as they are, after all, fundamentals. BTW on another forum I belong to we have actually put up a reading list (mainly from the trades people) covering just this topic.

For a beginner, most magazines are rather boring, with an over emphasis on tool reviews.... ....and not enough on terminology, technique and approach.

So what would you want to see? I have been lambasted in the past for sticking rigidly to the traditional terms "housing" and "rebate" instead of the Americanised (and incorrect IMO) "dado". Yet understanding the correct terminology is critical to being able to communicate sensibly with other woodworkers, isn't it? Do you want to see a return to woodworking as it was promoted by magazines such as "The Woodworker" in the 1930s, for example, when photographs were rare and projects were often based around making something practical?

Scrit

 

[Sgian Dubh]

...your information on rods was gratefully received, and this is something that I don't think i've ever seen in a magazine!

My Every Rod Tells a Story parts 1 and 2 appeared in Furniture & Cabinetmaking in issues 85 and 86, February and March, 2004. That should be a start for you. Slainte.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Personally I think knowledge is negligable anyway, I think it all comes down to natural abilities. You've either got it or you haven't.

Very likely to be untrue senior. Skill, and knowledge for that matter are, in my opinion, unlikely all due to natural ability.

Both come from perhaps a little native talent, perhaps 5%, and the rest comes from practice and study, reaching a plateau, then further practice and study until that next plateau is reached. Then you do it all again up the next hill.

The people with the most apparent 'natural' talent are always pushing themselves further, trying new things and are never in their 'comfort zone' of ability and familiarity. There's another higher plane to reach for for those with that supposed talent.

The ultimate expression of your ability is never reached-- your whole life is devoted to going that extra mile. The average or mediocre find a level of knowledge, skill and ability and that's as far as they reach. They're in their comfort zone and they're staying there. For them, good enough is near enough.

Sorry about this not being directly related to the magazine subject, but I thought your comment deserved a contradictory response. Slainte.

 

[lurker]

There's a article in the making Nick!

Out with Americanisations and in with British (cue: Dam busters theme tune) terminology. I'd even be interested in their (rustle of dictionary) etymology.

Dado confused the hell out of me as I thought it was that bit of wood around Victorian room to stop the chair backs mucking up the walls.

Also sign Scrit up for a regular workshop machinery safety slot based on his ramblings here on the forum. The stuff mags usually pass off as safety information is so basic and bland and obvious it makes me weep.

 

[ByronBlack]

Scrit, your spot on about books, and the ones you and Jacob and others that have recommended are on order as we speak so I appreciate that. BUT for people who havn't come from a tutored backgroud we don't know that these books exist or the quality of their information, that is where for a hobbyist a magazine could and should cover some fundamentals and/or provide a further reading list.

And I would like to see a return to traditional terminology/techniques. Photo's are great if they illustrate what's going on. I think some of the american ones are actually pretty good (despite their difference of language) - but then i'm probably talking more about the online publications, for example: Fine Woodworking.com and Chris Schwarz stuff. As an example, I just went over to FWW and they have a video on M&T using Powertools and handtools along with printed media.

At the end of the day, for anyone interested in a hobby, content is more important than photo's and illustrations, but if done properly they can help hammer home a technique that might be difficult to explain in words to a layman.

Slainte - cheers for the information, i'll keep an eye out for back issues.

 

[Mike.C]

Mr Grimsdale,

I don't buy many mags

senior,

I haven't bought a wood mag for 15 + years

ByronBlack,

I personally stopped buying magazines a while ago

If as you say you do not buy mags, then why the hell don't you give the guy a break. You have done nothing for the last few days but try and wind Nick up. IMHO you do not care if the magazine is printed or not, you are just out to cause trouble, again. And do not give us that rubbish about you are going to buy a copy and give us your thoughts, because no matter what Nick puts in it, you will find something wrong.

Mods, If you see this is as off topic then I am sorry, but there is nothing constructive about the way they wind members up when they feel like it, and they do not seem to care what anyone thinks, least of all the moderators, just look at the way they ignored Tony.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Good Surname or what ?]

Nick,

Can I begin by stating I've got no axe to grind and have ordered a copy to see what you are up to. It's only £3 afterall and I think it's good to support startups - I've also bought Steve Maskery's DVDs on the same principle - though it's a bit more than £3.

However, I'm not a great one for buying magazines. I pop-in to W H Smith every month and pick-up a copy of F&C (it's aspirational) - for the last year or so I've also bought GWW (usually there is little that interests me other than James Mursell's stuff and the odd project from this forum's contributors). I had a subscription to FWW but have since changed to an on-line subscription because I have unlimited access to the archives and can print PDF's if I need a paper copy. A loooong time ago I bought a mag called Woodworking International - I still have all the copies - I thought it was exceptionally good. Hmmm - perhaps I am a great one for buying mags afterall :shock:

Anyway.... to the point of my post.

I imagine it's a pretty big undertaking to start a magazine from scratch, and a significant risk to take with one's own money. So, I'd be interested to understand a few thing....

• 
  Can you say something about the demographic analysis that goes into designing content. Perhaps we, the forum members, are atypical of the magazine buying public. Maybe this is why you have got a lot of flak in the past over the content/format issue.
  
  I know nothing about publishing so I'd be interested to understand the economics of content/advertising/production/distribution/street price/profit.

Anyway good luck. I see 3 potential outcomes for you in decreasing order of goodness, for all concerned...

• The mag offers content of interest to this forum and the wider community. You're a raging success.
  
  The general public likes it - but most forum members don't. Well, you'll still be quite successful.
  
  You crash and burn. Sad for us all - but particularly you.

I look forward to seeing the product.
Phil

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Thanks, Phil. Here's my thinking.

The broadcast of information in all media has changed dramatically in the last few years. Increasingly it is a case of information on demand, hence FWW's online subscription service. As you'll discover in the first issue of British Woodworking we are starting a Project Finder service, whereby readers can ask us to find projects they need through the magazine. I don't want, necessarily, to be the provider of those projects, but aim to direct readers towards other providers, including rivals.

Part of the role of British Woodworking is to be a hub of information, because I think there is a need amongst many readers to find out about other sources of information. It is the future. If I was just a woodworker that's what I'd want, and I'm hoping there other woodworkers (of varying abilities) are of the same thinking (that's my demographic analysis).

I also hope to provide good journalism; ideally the best in the woodworking marketplace; a magazine people will want to read because the writing is thought-provoking, informative and entertaining. And of course I hope it spurs people into doing something they might otherwise not have tried. As a result they enjoy their woodworking all the more, and that makes me feel good.

The print v pixel argument is relevant if spurious. Print may no longer be the efficient way to get to people (and I should know from my print bills), but as I'm sure Charley recognises, it's still very difficult to make money from the electronic provision of information unless you have a very strong existing brand (and then it's probably a lost leader) or are in either porn or finance. That will change, but it's happening slower than the owners of electronic brands would like.

I've edited magazines in many markets (sailing, cross stitch, computing, caravaning, mountain biking etc...) and in most cases the content is driven by gut instinct, listening to lots of people, and a passion to produce something better, plus a hope that there is a market in the gap you are aiming for. Only time will tell will tell if that's the case with British Woodworking, but it will be a huge challenge finding out.

 

[A_n_g_e_l_a]

We shouldn't lose sight of the fact that magazines make most of their money from advertisers. Editors with an eye to their bottom line will tend to choose articles which can be used as a prompt to advertisers to take a bigger spread to match a 'special feature' article.

In my own case, many years ago, I wrote a a piece for Practical Woodworking that featured the use of a compressor. I'd even had free loan of several compressors while preparing the article from manufacturers keen to get their wares in the spotlight.

Given this subtle vectored push towards magazines featuring the manufactured and advertisable, it is not too surprising that there is sometimes a paucity of articles concentrating on simple hand tool techniques.

If it is technique and how-to you are after, buying magazines is not the answer. The long-term cost is excessive compared to buying a series of good books.

The only advantage a magazine has is speed to market. With developing technologies - such as Information Technology - magazines have a part to play spreading rapidly evolving knowledge - but in a subject that is as well defined and rehearsed as woodworking, there ain't much new is there? Certainly nothing is moving very fast. And once you realise that all woodwork devolves down to the 'accurate removal of waste' what else can one say?

 

[A_n_g_e_l_a]

And to contribute to the knowledge versus natural abilities debate, let me tell this tale that has remained with me many years ...

I watched, dumbfounded, with fellow students, as a lecturer passed a knitting needle through an inflated balloon. He pushed it gently from one side clear through to the other. The balloon remained intact. Asked how he did that - he explained it was his inherent skill or manual dexterity that allowed him to judge exactly the angle and force at which to push the needle.

After a while of trying to defend an untenable position from the barracking of a disbelieving audience, he finally moved to make his point. It was not skill or manual dexterity or natural ability, he admitted, it was technique. It was know how.

He knew that placing a couple of pieces of sellotape on the balloon, where the needle would enter and leave, would be enough to prevent the balloon from bursting. He went on to expand his theme that good woodwork was mainly about knowing and using the correct technique for the task in hand.

So guys, there you have it - it is not skill but it is knowing how to do something - and I would agree with the 95% - 5% split mentioned by others.

 

[ByronBlack]

Mike.C

Quote:
"If as you say you do not buy mags, then why the hell don't you give the guy a break. You have done nothing for the last few days but try and wind Nick up. IMHO you do not care if the magazine is printed or not, you are just out to cause trouble, again. And do not give us that rubbish about you are going to buy a copy and give us your thoughts, because no matter what Nick puts in it, you will find something wrong. "

I'm very offended by that!

I'm out to cause trouble again? really? if you look at my posts througout the thread i've defended nick somewhat and have offered my best wishes and support, what blinkered glasses are you looking through? And what if there was something wrong about the magazine, would we not be allowed to voice our opinion because you almightily decree that only your opinion be deemed worthy?

Just because i've not bought a mag for a while now means that i'm not entitled to an opinion?, or to question Nicks new venture to find out more about it, and exactly where have I made an attempt to wind him up?

If you have a personal grievence, why not PM me instead of spouting unsubstantiated pea's in a public thread!

Oh - and don't lump me in with your other accusations, where have I ignored Tony and the other mods? Your post is out of order, not mine prior to this, although now i'm as bad as you are and have come down to your level.

 

[Dave S]

I think it's about time it was openly recognised that this whole thread was a mistake and it was locked.

I find it quite insulting to have warnings issued to abide by the rules when a rule was waived to allow the original post to be made in the first place.

It would, IMO, have been far better to have offered publicity via an advert. Whether or not it was charged for would be unknown to forum members and none of our business.

Dave

 

[Anonymous]

snip
And once you realise that all woodwork devolves down to the 'accurate removal of waist' what else can one say?

That's "precision slimming" isn't it? :lol:

cheers
Jacob