box

[marcros]

I have got some very nice pieces of rippled sycamore veneer. I am planning to make a keepsake box from some of it, and thinking (early stages at the moment) of a tinted oil varnish as a finish, possibly over a coloured ground- to get somewhere near to a vintage violin colour.

My plan is to position some solid timber at the point where the lid would be sliced from the box, say an inch in height x 1/2" thick, and then to use MRMDF where it will not be seen. Veneer over it and slice the lid off, thus getting a nice match when the box is closed.

My quandry is: should I use something like maple or sycamore, which will be similar in colour but have no ripple, attempt to veneer the cut edges, or use something like walnut that will contrast with the rippled sycamore but may look like a nice feature?

 

[Glynne]

Mark
What you describe is the standard way Andrew Crawford makes his boxes, although he also adds a piece of solid timber at the bottom so as if you lift the box up, you see solid timber on the bottom as you do if you lift the lid. So essentially your sides are a sandwich of solid timber, MDF, solid timber & MDF again.
You could try and use veneer on the edges but apart from seeing a join between 2 pieces of veneer, there is also the possibility off damage with the lid opening and closing.

 

[marcros]

that was my fear on the edges- fiddly to do and then a bit delicate. The contrasting timber almost makes a feature of the fact that it is veneer.

The last one that I did- with solid sides, i used MDF on the base, but covered it with leather. It was just proud of the rebate in the sides by a hairs breadth so when you put the box down it was slightly cushioned, so shouldn't scratch anything and didnt clunk! i was going to put solid timber at the bottom of the sides on this one- not so much for the reason that you state, although good, it was to get away from potentailly fluffy mdf having to be accurately rebated- possible I know but a pain all the same.

 

[Glynne]

If you use a similar colour sycamore, you can get away with it appearing as the same timber rather than making a feature out of the veneer as you say. By having solid wood on the bottom you can slightly soften the edges so as not to damage surfaces.
I've never tried leather on the base. With MDF I have used beige or have veneered it and with plywood simply very finely sanded and varnished.
Not sure if you've seen any of Crawford's books but if you are likely to be making veneered boxes, you might find them interesting. If so, let me know and I'll drag out the ISBNs.

 

[marcros]

I must have a look on amazon- I did look once before but I think that the one I looked at was out of print. Is there one in particular that you recommend?

My concern with using sycamore or maple is whether the fact that the ripple doesn't continue going to look like a badly hidden mistake, whereas the feature would look more deliberate.

When I get some time I am going to learn to use sketchup for things like this. Probably over winter now though

 

[Glynne]

Out of all my box making books, I think the 2 ones that I regularly go back to are: -

Fine Decorative Boxes - Andrew Crawford
ISBN 1-4027-0317-1
The book is essentially about making veneered boxes and covers tools, techniques, materials and finishes.
There are step by step guidelines to making 10 different boxes from rectangular ones through to domed lids and then some exotic shapes.

Making Heirloom Boxes - Peter Lloyd
ISBN 1 86108 176 6
This is about solid wooden boxes and covers the same topics as Andrew's book.
There are guides to making 11 different boxes and you can get a feel of the type of boxes if you look at Peter's web site.

I have variety of other books on making boxes which are interesting but I wouldn't particularly recommend.

The only other one which you might like and one I regularly flick through for inspiration is: -

400 Wood Boxes - The Fine Art of Containment & Concealment
This is simply a collection of pictures of boxes but has dimensions and the material they are made from. Great for visualising how you finished box may look both in terms of the wood / veneer and size.

 

[marcros]

Thank you. It was fine decorative boxes that I was struggling to get but I found a copy on eBay last night for a few quid. I also bought another of his with the cross on the front and a brown cover for about 3 pounds.

I will have a look out for the Peter Lloyd one and the 400 boxes one.

 

[marcros]

Glynne,

Just a note to say thank you for the tip on books. I received "fine decorative boxes" from eBay or amazon yesterday and it is exactly what I was looking for. Some great ideas and techniques in there, particularly on veneering techniques. Certainly some stuff that I am going to try out.

 

[Glynne]

Glad you like it. The Peter Lloyd book is very similar but is about solid wood so between the 2 of them you pretty much have most bases covered.
Andrew often uses thin ply or MDF for lids and bases, sometimes 2mm. I never managed to find ply that thin but if you want 2mm MDF, picture framing supplies are the way to go.

 

[marcros]

I want to get some birch ply but I was going to use 6mm for the base since I have a grooving saw blade that width. The boxes I have made used 6mm mdf bases and solid lids at about 9mm so 6mm ply plus veneer should feel about right for both

 

[Glynne]

Just in the process of making the box with ABW that I posted earlier. For the base I'm using 2 x pieces of 2mm MDF with veneer top and bottom which sits nicely in a groove cut with a 1/4" spiral bit on the router table. The good thing with ply or MDF is that you don't have to worry about movement and so you can glue it place which helps support mitred corners.

 

[marcros]

Glynn,

My supplier of birch ply lists 1.5mm if that is any use to you. My inlaws live at brown hills so I could get it that far if you wanted a sheet. No idea of price but I can check that. It is in a funny size 1525x1525mm so it would be easier for me if cut once.

Mark

 

[Glynne]

Thanks for the offer Mark.
I'm OK at the moment but I'll certainly keep you in mind and if there is anything you might want from my neck of the woods, let me know and I'll drop it off at Brownhills.
I'm probably 2/3rds the way through my walnut box so I'll wait until I finish before I post any pictures but I did use a Wealden 1.5mm 6 wing groover to cut the lid off - and it is brilliant. Not cheap but I routed a 3mm (1/4") groove on the inside before gluing up and then cut virtually all the way through using the groover and separated with a craft knife. Ultra clean with minimal finishing required.
http://www.wealdentool.com/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Groover_134.html

 

[marcros]

That is handy to know, and thanks for the Brownhills offer.

I am part way through my box, which is taking longer than i hoped, but I havent been rushing.. I have veneered the insides before glueup, but have a bit of faffing to do next on the inside of the lid where a veneer slipped. I have an idea to make a feature of it but am awaiting a few bits in the post. On this one, I have sliced the lid off before gluing up, on the suggestion of one of Andrew Crawford's books. I wouldn't normally do this, and am not sure that I would do so again. It made veneering the inside easier, but means that i have to line up the veneer across the lid and base, unless i do it in one and use a craft knife to separate it. That is an idea actually.

 

[andersonec]

I would have thought veneering the inside of the panels before glue up would be the way to go, veneering the interior once the box is made will be a nightmare.

If the box exterior is to be veneered after glue up (recommended) then rebated corners would make the job easier and then the cut edges (when the lid is separated) can be veneered and the corners mitred.

Something like this

Andy

 

[marcros]

you make it look so easy!

i have veneered the inside, and finished it with a bit of tru-oil. I would have sanding sealered it but i didnt know whether that would cause issues with an oil finish afterwards. The cut edges will be left as black walnut- the contrast looks good.

next is glue up. oh and the feature made of the veneer slippage is looking rather good, so much so that is to become the external face!

 

[andersonec]

I reckon the sealer wouldn't allow the oil to penetrate, don't think there is any need for sealer when you are finishing with oil as it will build up with subsequent coats.

Have a practice clamp up for squareness etc before glue goes anywhere near your box.

Glad that you could turn a mishap into a feature and that you rescued it, mine usually gets smashed in a fit of temper but gradually calming down.