bowed timber

[tender foot]

Alright lads i am new to this forum so please be gentle, i am not a chippie by trade but i am a keen wodworker, or should i say a keen newbie woodworker .

Recently all the softwood timber i have had from the merchants has been bowed, i have tried most of the merchants and it is the same in all of them. It is not so much of an issue when i am cutting shorter lengths, as i can cut the straighter parts between the knots of the lengths of timber. But for longer lengths it is an issue.

Are there any tricks of the trade i can use to help the problem?
How badly bowed does timber have to be beore it is not much use? (i know this is like asking how long is a piece of string, but is there some rule of thumb)
What effects does using bowed timber have structurally? (or is it just a case that it looks bad)
Once you assemble an item with bowed timber will the timber continue to bow further?
What do you do about/with bowed timber?

Oh yeah and i guess i should mention that i am using the softwood for making furniture (mortice and tenons joints).

I know i have asked quite a few questions but i hope you can take the time to help a more inexperienced wood worker.

Thanks in advance

tender foot

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi tender foot

Welcome to the forum.

It would be helpful if we knew your location, so that members could recommend a local timber merchant.

Do you have any facilities for planing and thicknessing?

Cheers
Neil

 

[motownmartin]

I am having the same trouble but i'm guessing it's because I didn't buy properly dried timber, next time I shall use a well known supplier rather than a backstreet cowboy

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Recently all the softwood timber i have had from the merchants has been bowed, i have tried most of the merchants and it is the same in all of them. tender foot

Not all softwood is the same tenderfoot. There is stuff conditioned for use in construction, usually kilned to about 15% MC. Then there are furniture grade softwoods, conditioned to about 10% MC here in the UK. The quality of the original wood is generally better too because it's selected for that end use.

So it depends a bit on what grade you're buying, and for what purpose. In other words I wouldn't buy construction grade material to make furniture, nor visa-versa. Slainte.

 

[tender foot]

cheers for your replys boys.

Sorry i should have said that i am based in south wales, swansea.
I have been to travis perkins and other local merchants you probally haven't heard of if you haven't worked in the area (Hancock and Brown, Swansea ply and timber, Gower timber), none of which seem to be much good.
The timber i have been using is PAR. I might have been playing it a bit fast and lose with the term furniture (i am a newbie and just geting started ), at the moment i am making full length wardrobes. I dont have a thickness planer or a table saw, the tools i do have are most of the hand tools required, a dewalt sliding mitre saw, and a trend router.
Any advice you boys can give me about bowed timber and weather i can use it for what i am doing would be much appreciated. All the best.

thanks in advance

tender foot

 

[lurker]

The "girls" will be along shortly to tell you off you sexist swine!! :lol: :lol:

Welcome to the forum.


And the slope :lol:

 

[tender foot]

Opps sorry lurker , it was a slip of the tongue so to speak :roll: .
After years of working on site (spark by trade) it is bad habit, but i should know better. I will remember for next time.

All the best.

tender foot

 

[tkots]

Greetings from Greece.
During drying period any piece of wood will deform if not stowed properly or not dried properly.
As soon as a piece of wood deforms (bends) and dries it is impossible to restore it's flatness.
The only way to make it flat is by planning it and of course as you already mentioned by cutting it in smaller pieces.
Do not try Steam or Ammonia it will not have any effect.
It is strongly advisable to test for humidity prior using a certain piece of wood and in the case that is more than 11% just let it dry more keeping in mind that it has to be properly stowed in order not to deform.
Instructions about storing and drying wood can be found on the internet.

 

[Pecker]

Hi and welcome to the forum. Dont worry about being a newbie - I'm a chippie by trade, yet still learn lots!

If you think hancocks is bad try the ones up here in Pembs! I actually travel down to get sheet material from hancocks!

One point, PAR is usually whitewood. For joinery you will be better off using "redwood". A bit more expensive, but significantly better and noramally a lower moisture content.r. Having said that, it often bows just as ruddy much!

It would certainly be worth your while investing ina planer/thicknesser. The saving to be made on buying sawn timber and planing it yourself can at times be considerable. This way you can also choose the individuaL pieces of timber and plane to your hearts content. However many merchants will have mills where they will plane it for you for a small aditional cost.

kind regards
Woody

 

[tender foot]

Cheers everyone for you replys, it seems that a thicknesser is the best way to go (once i can afford it).

For know though to use the timber i have got, will the timber used for framework constructed using mortice and tenons bow / warp / twist even further once assembled? :? ( iguess it depends if the timber has dried out fully)

Can i use two pieces that are slightly bowing in the same direction for opposite ends of the framework? :?

Pecker i dont think hancocks is terrible, but since i have needed longer lengths i have noticed that some of the timber is bowed quite badly. Can you recomend any good timber merchants up your neck of the woods?

All the best

tender foot

 

[ike]

The local timber/builders merchants were independent and family owned until bought out by TP. The old man prided himself on sourcing good timber and they always had a good range and even good quality joinery grade. Now the range of stock and quality has gone south while the price has gone north. They call it progress. :roll:

 

[Pecker]

I think Ike has summed it up!

Nope, one of our good locals just been bought out by TP too now they employ idiots who dont know and dont care!

woody

 

[tender foot]

Oh well i will just have to stick with the locl merchants (Better the Devil you know know and all that ).

What do think about using two piecs that have a slight bow in them For opposite ends of a frame. Is it a good idea? Will it look alright? Will it be structurally ok? (I cant wait to get a ticknesser)

All the best

Tender foot

 

[Mdotflorida]

Hi TF, welcome.

I have bought sheet goods (Oak veneered MDF) from Nottage Joinery in Pyle. They may be worth a phone call to see what else they supply. Maybe a call to Timberman in Bronwydd Arms Carmarthen. They may be able to tell you if there are any decent suppliers in the area.

Although I live in the area I haven't had occassion to source any softwood locally. I tend to order wood over the net and have it delivered.

Jeff

 

[Pecker]

I've never used timberman but he is supposed to be very good.

woody

 

[JFC]

Hi Tender foot welcome to the forum .
I buy all my timber PAR for two reasons . One is for speed and the other is because my workshop is in a built up area and the constant noise from a P/T could shut me down .
Regarding using the bowed timber for the frame , if you are fixing the face frame to a carcase then you should be able to bend it back into shape . If you cannot get the bow out then you are going to have serious trouble when it comes to putting on the doors .

 

[tender foot]

Cheers Mdotflorida and Pecker, i will try both the merchants you suggested, probally timberman first as i think it is closer and i do a bit of work down camarthen. The internet is a good idea as well although i assume you have to get quite a big order when using the internet.

A mate of mine works in swansea ply and timber (so could be biased, or have shares ), after speaking to him today he reckons that all there softwood is stored indoors and so has a low moisture content and the majority doesn't bow. I told him i did not find this to be the case when i had timber from them but i did have it delivered and so didn't pick out the timber myself.

JFC, i have picked out the best timber for the face frame, i planed to use the bowed timber for the back of the frame where it wont be to visable. But i am a little concerned wheather it is structurally it a good idea or how obvious it is on the eye the timber isn't perfectly straight.

All the best

tender foot

 

[Keith Smith]

Ah, there's the problem :roll: don't have timber delivered :wink:

Go to the yard and pick your own, by looking down each length you can just get the straight ones. As a lot of other people will be doing the same thing that leaves all the twisted ones to be delivered to the unwary.

Keith