Now looking to plan and equip my main workshop, having now just about completed my smaller one with Lathe/Drill Press mortiser. I know that there are a lot of people out there with a lot more experience that me, so here is the question. Spend the budget on cheaper and smaller Table Saw/Bandsaw/Planer Thicknesser (Say £2500 approx) or go for just a Bandsaw and P/T (Hammer N4400 & A3-31). Space is a real problem and less machinery with possibly greater capacity means more room to work. Would really appreciate any thoughts based on your experience and decisions you would make if you had to start again.
Better Bandsaw & P/T versus cheaper equipment etc
- Thread starter ndbrown
- Start date
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ByronBlack
Established Member
Always go for the best tool you can afford. If I were in your shoes, I would go for the two excellent machines rather than three not so good. You'll always know you made a compromise, but on the other hand with the two machines, you'll always be pleased that you have the best that you could afford.
You can always save for a decent TS later down the line.
You can always save for a decent TS later down the line.
davy_owen_88
Established Member
Always buy the best you can afford - I bought cheap tools to start with and I still regret doing so to this day. Even after you have replaced them with higher quality machines you still remember the money you wasted on the cheap stuff and wish you had spent it on something useful.
curlywol
Established Member
I endorse what has been said. My workshop is based around bandsaw, thicknesser and RAS, all good quality tools.
There is no room for a week link in this setup. Go for the best that you can afford.
There is no room for a week link in this setup. Go for the best that you can afford.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Assuming that you are talking hobby work here and not trying to produce furniture 8 hoiurs a day 5 days a week.
I don't agree with the above advice at all
Your budget of £2500 seems to have escaped the people giving the advice.
I would say that you could buy some very reasonable mid-priced kit for the money you have and not be disappointed at all. The idea that you need to buy the most expensive machinery you can afford is a nonsense when you have such a budget - just don't buy very low priced budget kit.
For instance, an Axminster tablesaw and bandsaw would set you back well under half your budget, are very well made and work very well indeed, and a decent planer/thicknesser can be had for circa £500
I offer this advice after 15 years of hobby woodwork and making the very low price budget mistakes myself (e.g. Nutool)
I don't agree with the above advice at all
Your budget of £2500 seems to have escaped the people giving the advice.
I would say that you could buy some very reasonable mid-priced kit for the money you have and not be disappointed at all. The idea that you need to buy the most expensive machinery you can afford is a nonsense when you have such a budget - just don't buy very low priced budget kit.
For instance, an Axminster tablesaw and bandsaw would set you back well under half your budget, are very well made and work very well indeed, and a decent planer/thicknesser can be had for circa £500
I offer this advice after 15 years of hobby woodwork and making the very low price budget mistakes myself (e.g. Nutool)
Colin C
Established Member
On this one I would agree with Tony as you can get some good kit that is not expensive.
Good luck with what you get
Good luck with what you get
davy_owen_88
Established Member
Tony":21awibui said:
I don't think anyone was telling the OP to spend all his cash on industrial machines that he won't need, just that he shouldn't buy lots of cheap tools in favour of a few good ones - don't make do with something that isn't 100% suitable, get one that ticks all the boxes first time round and save yourself the hassle and disappointment when the time comes to do a project and the 'new tool you just bought' doesn't cut it (pun intended).
With a budget of £2500 you could easily buy a decent T/S, bandsaw and P/T but you have to know what you want to use them for. Even a hobby woodworker might need a large bandsaw if the work they want to do demands it, and then you are talking big bucks, anything less would be a waste of money if it doesn't do all that you require.
Chris Knight
Established Member
ndbrown,
It would really help to know what your ambitions are. I see you have already spent money on a lathe and a morticing attachment for a drill press - were these the most important items on your list - or do they simply indicate a broad range of interests?
It would really help to know what your ambitions are. I see you have already spent money on a lathe and a morticing attachment for a drill press - were these the most important items on your list - or do they simply indicate a broad range of interests?
woodbloke
Established Member
I think that for a hobbiest or part time weekend woodworker the mid range stuff from Axminster is perfectly adequate as mentioned by Tony....just don't buy anything really cheap at the bottom end of the market - Rob
ByronBlack
Established Member
Two thing:
You can't assume the OP is and will still be a hobbyist, and secondly, he mentions capacity as a factor, hence I feel he is better of with the two fantastic (and hammer machines are superb) tools rather than mid-range axminster gear.
I always look to the future - what if the OP goes on to do commercial pieces, what if his work demands better machines down the line? He would then have to sell the mid-range stuff and replace with the higher capacity machines which he could have bought to start with.
The budget is immaterial in this context as the OP has stated that he has that to spend so why not get the best for the money rather than making compromising right from the outset.
I really wished I had the cash to get the Hammer P/T after my experiences with el-rusto, but i'm lumped with it now so have to spend a bunch of time getting it to do what I wanted it to do - whereas with the Hammer, there is a lot less setup involved and a much better machine at the heart of it.
Who's to say a Hobbyist can't have top of the range tools, isn't this just the same as a person who buys Lie-Nielsen planes that almost everyone on here either owns, aspires to own or recommends to people? Stanleys or Records would be adequate, but if you have the budget, then why not get the best?
You can't assume the OP is and will still be a hobbyist, and secondly, he mentions capacity as a factor, hence I feel he is better of with the two fantastic (and hammer machines are superb) tools rather than mid-range axminster gear.
I always look to the future - what if the OP goes on to do commercial pieces, what if his work demands better machines down the line? He would then have to sell the mid-range stuff and replace with the higher capacity machines which he could have bought to start with.
The budget is immaterial in this context as the OP has stated that he has that to spend so why not get the best for the money rather than making compromising right from the outset.
I really wished I had the cash to get the Hammer P/T after my experiences with el-rusto, but i'm lumped with it now so have to spend a bunch of time getting it to do what I wanted it to do - whereas with the Hammer, there is a lot less setup involved and a much better machine at the heart of it.
Who's to say a Hobbyist can't have top of the range tools, isn't this just the same as a person who buys Lie-Nielsen planes that almost everyone on here either owns, aspires to own or recommends to people? Stanleys or Records would be adequate, but if you have the budget, then why not get the best?
curlywol
Established Member
It seems to me that someone who is Planning/Equipping a main workshop and considering spending 2 and a half grand is intending to do some serious work!
I started in a similar way 10 years ago. My big 3 machines are all still goin strong!!
And Tony, I dont remember anyone using the word expensive - just the best!
John
I started in a similar way 10 years ago. My big 3 machines are all still goin strong!!
And Tony, I dont remember anyone using the word expensive - just the best!
John
For the hobbyist woodworking must be fun! By buying the best within your budget you can safe yourself a lot of frustration which I find very important. Nothing is worse than taking a piece of wood to a machine and having to see the machine hasn't got the capacity by only just a 1/16" because you decided on one step down when buying the kit. Or when a cut is just not right due to a lousy saw guide, fence or mitre gauge.
And no matter if you're a hobbyist or a professional woodworker when you create something the result must be as perfect as possible. The quality depends a lot on skill but having better tools can make the job a lot easier and more fun.
And no matter if you're a hobbyist or a professional woodworker when you create something the result must be as perfect as possible. The quality depends a lot on skill but having better tools can make the job a lot easier and more fun.
Really appreciate all the views and comments. I purchased the Floor standing motiser and seperate Drill press from Axminster with my 25 year service award (better than a carriage clock) and added a second hand Coronet No 3 lathe do do some simple spindle turning. Drill press was good value for money, but wish I had spent a bit more and got one with lower runout.
I have never made any furniture in my life, but have spent 10 years renovating a 200 year old house so have acquired good skills and enjoy learning. I have inherited my fathers tools (he was a timeserved coachbuilder from 1939 to 1980) and was surpised that he managed to do very good quality work with what look like very ordinary, but old hand tools (he died before I developed a real interest in woodworking!
As a mechanical engineer, I find myself looking as much at the construction of the machinery as the specs and some of the lower price equipment show in their construction.
I really want to make furniture for our new house as it gives me the flexibility to make exactly what we want and not buy something that is a compromise.
Truth is, I have no idea how good I will be at this, but I would not attempt it if I did not have an idea that I could do a good job.
In a 16' x 9' garage, space will be tight with a workbench to accomodate as well (all the other tools I have already are in a seperate shed).
Buying sawn hardwood as far as I can see is the most cost effective way to make anything. Will I be able to get by with a good bandsaw and planer thicknesser or will I really need a tablesaw? I dont know but appreciate everyones comments. Sorry for the length of the reply, but hope it clarifies my situation.
Nigel
I have never made any furniture in my life, but have spent 10 years renovating a 200 year old house so have acquired good skills and enjoy learning. I have inherited my fathers tools (he was a timeserved coachbuilder from 1939 to 1980) and was surpised that he managed to do very good quality work with what look like very ordinary, but old hand tools (he died before I developed a real interest in woodworking!
As a mechanical engineer, I find myself looking as much at the construction of the machinery as the specs and some of the lower price equipment show in their construction.
I really want to make furniture for our new house as it gives me the flexibility to make exactly what we want and not buy something that is a compromise.
Truth is, I have no idea how good I will be at this, but I would not attempt it if I did not have an idea that I could do a good job.
In a 16' x 9' garage, space will be tight with a workbench to accomodate as well (all the other tools I have already are in a seperate shed).
Buying sawn hardwood as far as I can see is the most cost effective way to make anything. Will I be able to get by with a good bandsaw and planer thicknesser or will I really need a tablesaw? I dont know but appreciate everyones comments. Sorry for the length of the reply, but hope it clarifies my situation.
Nigel
curlywol
Established Member
Hi Nigel
As i said before, I have never owned a tablesaw but have made eveything form garden fencing to hardwood sideboards :lol:
But if you do decide not to go down the table saw route you will need to consider a good crosscut saw for accurate repeatable cutting to length.
Best of luck with your choices
John
As i said before, I have never owned a tablesaw but have made eveything form garden fencing to hardwood sideboards :lol:
But if you do decide not to go down the table saw route you will need to consider a good crosscut saw for accurate repeatable cutting to length.
Best of luck with your choices
John
ByronBlack
Established Member
I also get by without a tablesaw and couldn't justify the space in the workshop for what is for me just a way of ripping and cross-cutting which I can do adequatly on other machines.
One thing is for sure, you'll never regret buying a brilliant and expensive tool The other point worth thinking about is if you ever do decide it's not for you, you'll get more value from the Hammer machines than you will mid-range axminster gear, quality tools hold their values a lot more.
One thing is for sure, you'll never regret buying a brilliant and expensive tool The other point worth thinking about is if you ever do decide it's not for you, you'll get more value from the Hammer machines than you will mid-range axminster gear, quality tools hold their values a lot more.
Sawdust
Established Member
Regarding your point about the tablesaw.
My route was radial arm saw, then I added a big bandsaw and then bought a tablesaw with sliding carriage.
If I were to start again I would definitely buy a tablesaw first and build the workshop around it. Since getting the tablesaw, I find I hardly use either of the other machines.
Just my two penneth etc. and I guess it depends what you intend to use them for, but given the choice between the bandsaw and the table saw, I'd get the tablesaw first.
Good luck whatever way you go.
Mike
My route was radial arm saw, then I added a big bandsaw and then bought a tablesaw with sliding carriage.
If I were to start again I would definitely buy a tablesaw first and build the workshop around it. Since getting the tablesaw, I find I hardly use either of the other machines.
Just my two penneth etc. and I guess it depends what you intend to use them for, but given the choice between the bandsaw and the table saw, I'd get the tablesaw first.
Good luck whatever way you go.
Mike
beech1948
Established Member
ndbrown,
I think that you need to consider what your first 10 projects might be in terms of complexity and increasing skill levels.
Then you need to ask yourself what level of accuracy you want from the table saw or bandsaw. The answer to this will determine what you buy.
The table saw is the most accurate, certainly more so than a band saw. BUT if you use a bandsaw then leave enough wood to work either by planer or by hand to get down to finished sizes you will probably be OK but have to do more work and thinking. BUT the P/T will be essential.
If you are going to cut straight lines with no or very few curves the bandsaw may not be the best solution...but might be the cheapest...but would be unlikely to be the best spec.
You might also want to take your project list and break it down by joint types to see what use you may get from tablesaw/bandsaw in cutting these. AND compare this to doing more handwork...possibly the cheapest to start with good kit...compared to machines.
So try to envisage the stage by stage creation of a project from raw wood and see what will help before buying kit. Your budget is enough to go with some pretty good equipment so its not really a constraint.
regards
Alan the Felder user.
I think that you need to consider what your first 10 projects might be in terms of complexity and increasing skill levels.
Then you need to ask yourself what level of accuracy you want from the table saw or bandsaw. The answer to this will determine what you buy.
The table saw is the most accurate, certainly more so than a band saw. BUT if you use a bandsaw then leave enough wood to work either by planer or by hand to get down to finished sizes you will probably be OK but have to do more work and thinking. BUT the P/T will be essential.
If you are going to cut straight lines with no or very few curves the bandsaw may not be the best solution...but might be the cheapest...but would be unlikely to be the best spec.
You might also want to take your project list and break it down by joint types to see what use you may get from tablesaw/bandsaw in cutting these. AND compare this to doing more handwork...possibly the cheapest to start with good kit...compared to machines.
So try to envisage the stage by stage creation of a project from raw wood and see what will help before buying kit. Your budget is enough to go with some pretty good equipment so its not really a constraint.
regards
Alan the Felder user.
I would go for a goad P/T and table saw and drop the band saw from the list. A table saw can do most things a band saw can do. It only lacks to be able to saw curves and very thick wood. For curves a scollsaw of even jigsaw could be used or use a plane to do them. A table saw is very accurate and easy to cut bulk stock to the same dimensions. Also tennons are grerat to do on the table saw.
As soon as you need to saw thick wood that cannot be done otherwise and you have still the room go buy a band saw.
As soon as you need to saw thick wood that cannot be done otherwise and you have still the room go buy a band saw.
