Best Mitre Saw under £350
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Get anything below 10" you will regret it! Unless you want it specifically for small work like beading, bath stud, picture rails etc.
That saw is more than accurate enough for roughing out work and first fix type stuff though
That saw is more than accurate enough for roughing out work and first fix type stuff though
MikeJhn":1nmkfpux said:
Yes but that is dangerous! The rake on a tablesaw blade is designed so the blade pushes down on the table, i.e. towards the spindle. That on a mitre saw also pushes down on the table, but that is away from the spindle. The teeth are raked differently and should not be interchanged.
I agree that the laser guide isn't much use.
Keith
Mike[/quote]
Yes but that is dangerous! The rake on a tablesaw blade is designed so the blade pushes down on the table, i.e. towards the spindle. That on a mitre saw also pushes down on the table, but that is away from the spindle. The teeth are raked differently and should not be interchanged.
I agree that the laser guide isn't much use.
Keith[/quote]
Yes I totally agree... never, ever use a positive hook blade (table saw blade ) in a mitre or radial arm saw, this pulls the wood upwards away from the bed.
And the reverse for a table saw try to avoid using a negative hooked blade in a table saw. Granted not so dangerous but not recommended as it makes the timber lift off the bed and away from the blade. I wouldn't recommend using lesstock than a 0 hook angle blade on a table saw
Yes but that is dangerous! The rake on a tablesaw blade is designed so the blade pushes down on the table, i.e. towards the spindle. That on a mitre saw also pushes down on the table, but that is away from the spindle. The teeth are raked differently and should not be interchanged.
I agree that the laser guide isn't much use.
Keith[/quote]
Yes I totally agree... never, ever use a positive hook blade (table saw blade ) in a mitre or radial arm saw, this pulls the wood upwards away from the bed.
And the reverse for a table saw try to avoid using a negative hooked blade in a table saw. Granted not so dangerous but not recommended as it makes the timber lift off the bed and away from the blade. I wouldn't recommend using lesstock than a 0 hook angle blade on a table saw
memzey":2una1z84 said:
I've decided to go for this model memzey MAKITA LS1018L 260MM, Whatever mitre saw review you read you get conflicting feedback, I think this will be just fine. Funds will allow me to buy the 1016 but this wouldn't allow me a stand etc.
MikeJhn":3eqp206n said:
Right... Looking at the 4 upper left images as they are the most relevant to you (working anticlockwise):
Positive hook/rake:
The tip of the tooth points forward, this is used for a saw where the blade cuts the work piece on the down stroke ie. The rotation of the blade traps the wood between the blade and the bed of the machine, which allows a more aggressive cut
eg. Table saw, Hand held circular saw 'rip saw'!
DO NOT use in a Mitre saw, radial arm saw or pretty much any saw where the blade can cut away from the bed!
Neutral or 0 degree hook/rake:
The whole cutting surface of the tooth is at right angles to the bed of the machine, This is the maximum hook angle that would be found in a mitre saw which has a ripping blade fitted (someone correct me if im wrong please)
This i believe is most commonly found on a RAS (radial arm saw) as these cut on the down stroke But, the blade is pulled across the work piece which can be prone to having the blade bite and ride ontop of the wood if you are too rough!
This (or something very close to 0 degree) can also be found on a table saw blades designed for cutting sheets that have veneered or laminate surfaces on both sides to stop breakout/speltching of the melamine/veneer on both sides of the board. (But if you were to be doing a lot of this type of sheet work it would be more advisable to use a table saw with a grooving blade instead for better results!)
Negative hook/rake:
The tip of the tooth points backwards, this is for a mitre saw, they generally have a high tooth count as well 40+ these give a very gentle, cutting action which minimises the chance for the wood to lift away from the bed of a mitre saw, they also give a very fine clean cut.
DO NOT use in a table saw or hand held circular saw.
Anti Kickback Pawls:
Kind of self explanatory, the anti kickback bumps have 2 actions. Firstly they limit the amount of material that can be 'forced' through the the saw blade which reduces the chance of kickback and secondly they reduce the force of a kickback if one does occur!
However finding a saw blade with these on is not an indication that you can now try and ram the saw through the wood as fast as possible...
The safest, most accurate and finest cut finish is produced from a constant gentle cutting motion, slow enough to allow the blade to do what its designed to (cut the wood) yet smoothly and quickly enough so you do not burn the wood...
Burnt blade marks = too slow
Rough nasty spelched edge = too fast
repeated kick backs & blade jams = way too rough, bull handed and you shouldn't be left unsupervised!
The only other bit that is most important to occasional saw users is on the right hand side which shows the 'Radial clearance' 'R' which is the gap between the kerf 'K' and the saw plate (the big round disk that the teeth are attached to) when the teeth become heavily worn and rub against the plate of the saw blade this is dangerous and means that the blade can become trapped in the wood... this is when you throw the blade away and buy a new one!
(or on high quality blades have new teeth fitted, but this is mainly industrial saws so isn't really an option for a domestic saw)
I may have missed something or explained it badly, but someone will probably explain better or add something i missed!
Attachments
Sorry MikeJhn, i think i miss read your post!
I doubt you will find anything relative on HSE, most H&S deals directly with the machine, not attachments/user modifiable parts! However if a blade is included with the machine it must be tested as safe to use during the overall testing (if that makes sense?) But again, the first thing a professional would do is throw that blade in the back of a cupboard and fit a quality blade, because 99 out of a 100 times the supplied blade is a piece of junk!
Although a visual inspection is how you would differentiate between the 3, although without very close inspection it can be possible to miss judge the rake angle on neutral and negative hook angles.
If you have a mitre saw buy a blade specifically listed as a mitre blade, same with an RAS check that it is suitable for the machine you intend to fit it too.
From a H&S perspective you cannot say for instance that:
"A blade without anti kickback pawls cannot be used in a work environment because it is unsafe compared to one that does have anti kickback pawls!" This is because the intended purpose, tooth spacing of the blade will dictate if it can or cant have this feature.
That is like saying "you can't use a ripping blade to make cross cuts or use a cross cut blade to make rip cuts"
Because you can!
It is nothing more than the blade has been refined to have optimal performance cutting in one particular manner!
All blades of any design, type, tooth count, purpose, coating, manufacturer are as safe as can be, for a large sharp disk spinning at several 1000rpm, you shove your hand in it... its not safe, you keep your hands away from the sharp spinning bit and its safe!
The 2 largest health and safety issue are:
Having an incompetent person use the machine to start with (the machine is safe in the right hands)
Having someone who has no understanding of how to do something telling you how to do something! (would you let an 8 year old child teach someone how to drive?)
I'm sorry if it sounds like i have a dislike for H&S, because i don't... i have an issue with people from the H&S department telling you how to do your job with no concept of what you are doing or how to do it!
Being in a workshop filled with large industrial wood working machines we are a target for H&S staff telling us how to use a piece of equipment that they didn't even know existed!
The most basic example of this that comes to mind is:-
I was told by the H&S officer that i shouldn't stand in front of the table saw when ripping an 8x4 sheet of ply in half.
When i questioned this i was told that the blade is spinning towards me and that i was in line with the dust being ejected from the blade guard (i was wearing a full face shield, long apron and my sleeves rolled up btw).
When asked where i should stand i was told that i should stand at the side of the machine and push the sheet sideways...
This is by no means the most impractical or stupid HSE related 'issue' we have to deal with. I'm not going to explain why this was stupid and impractical, because everyone that has used or does use a table saw will be rolling on the floor!
I doubt you will find anything relative on HSE, most H&S deals directly with the machine, not attachments/user modifiable parts! However if a blade is included with the machine it must be tested as safe to use during the overall testing (if that makes sense?) But again, the first thing a professional would do is throw that blade in the back of a cupboard and fit a quality blade, because 99 out of a 100 times the supplied blade is a piece of junk!
Although a visual inspection is how you would differentiate between the 3, although without very close inspection it can be possible to miss judge the rake angle on neutral and negative hook angles.
If you have a mitre saw buy a blade specifically listed as a mitre blade, same with an RAS check that it is suitable for the machine you intend to fit it too.
From a H&S perspective you cannot say for instance that:
"A blade without anti kickback pawls cannot be used in a work environment because it is unsafe compared to one that does have anti kickback pawls!" This is because the intended purpose, tooth spacing of the blade will dictate if it can or cant have this feature.
That is like saying "you can't use a ripping blade to make cross cuts or use a cross cut blade to make rip cuts"
Because you can!
It is nothing more than the blade has been refined to have optimal performance cutting in one particular manner!
All blades of any design, type, tooth count, purpose, coating, manufacturer are as safe as can be, for a large sharp disk spinning at several 1000rpm, you shove your hand in it... its not safe, you keep your hands away from the sharp spinning bit and its safe!
The 2 largest health and safety issue are:
Having an incompetent person use the machine to start with (the machine is safe in the right hands)
Having someone who has no understanding of how to do something telling you how to do something! (would you let an 8 year old child teach someone how to drive?)
I'm sorry if it sounds like i have a dislike for H&S, because i don't... i have an issue with people from the H&S department telling you how to do your job with no concept of what you are doing or how to do it!
Being in a workshop filled with large industrial wood working machines we are a target for H&S staff telling us how to use a piece of equipment that they didn't even know existed!
The most basic example of this that comes to mind is:-
I was told by the H&S officer that i shouldn't stand in front of the table saw when ripping an 8x4 sheet of ply in half.
When i questioned this i was told that the blade is spinning towards me and that i was in line with the dust being ejected from the blade guard (i was wearing a full face shield, long apron and my sleeves rolled up btw).
When asked where i should stand i was told that i should stand at the side of the machine and push the sheet sideways...
This is by no means the most impractical or stupid HSE related 'issue' we have to deal with. I'm not going to explain why this was stupid and impractical, because everyone that has used or does use a table saw will be rolling on the floor!
mugginsNO1
Established Member
I have a Metabo KGS216M and I really like it. Stable but easy to move around, accurate and powerful. Some good deals around as well.
RossJarvis
Established Member
Norfolk75":3kcrxtq0 said:
Just noticed this post (and your other one) as there I'd strongly recommend not buying this saw. Far too many faults to mention mainly it is impossible to cut accurately with the one I have.
Disnt realise the new kapex 60 was coming in so low at £450 i think i paid £900 for the 120. At the time i was nervous about spending so much but its proven to be money well spent, very dependable accuracy and great dust collection.
I refer my honourable friend to the second post on this thread. 
http://www.toolfest.co.uk/festool-kapex
£464.40 including VAT delivered for the basic saw. The Plus model is £536.40.
I haven't seen it at £450 and that may be an ex-VAT price.
http://www.toolfest.co.uk/festool-kapex
£464.40 including VAT delivered for the basic saw. The Plus model is £536.40.
I haven't seen it at £450 and that may be an ex-VAT price.
This Festool add seems to show the new Kapex KS60 with a negative hook blade: https://www.youtube.com/watch? v=fCMPYH9FXuM as do all the adds for the Festool range of Kapex saws.
Mike
Mike
RossJarvis":35t7ibrz said:
Thanks.
The more I read the more I'm sure this machine is not for me, gutted really because I'd of expected more from Makita on this one. It all now boils down to the list below.
I know I've asked the question but I'm not loaded by any means and want to make sure I really don't buy something not very good.
So finally these are the 3 I've now boiled it down to.
METABO KGS254 plus
DEWALT DWS778
MAKITA LS1018L
Or do I go all out and save another £100 and get something a lot better. Appreciate the replies & apologies for going over the same topic.
..I had the same ones on my initial list. I ended up with the Metabo. I had it saved on my Amazon wish list and when the price dropped to £199 I brought it. Have used it a few times now and it seems to be fine...no regrets, and the cutting capacity compared to my old 10" saw is brilliant!
My first choice would have been Bosch but the one I wanted was about £450 and I did not think I could justify more than double the money for something I did not use that often, plus the Bosch is quite heavy where as the Metabo is relatively light, so easy to lug around.
..nb it took me about 3 months to decide which one to get. All the ones on my original list fell by the wayside for various reasons. (I initially liked the Makita, but the ones I actually saw (no pun intended) did not "feel" good quality in the sliding rails, and as per above some really bad reviews.
Some saws too heavy, some no trench cutting (depth stop....Dewalt), some too expensive for the size I wanted (Bosch). So in the end Metabo was the only one left.
The only (minor) downside is that it only bevels one way, (most only go one way except Bosch..too expensive), and also the rails do stick out a long way at the back, so if space is limited on your "bench" this my be an issue but not for me as I normally use on a workmate, (..looking to buy a stand with he money I saved).
...and finally for £200 I think its good value for money and that is the amount I was happy to spend.
..so if I where you I would "go Metabo"...particularly if you can get a good deal..
My first choice would have been Bosch but the one I wanted was about £450 and I did not think I could justify more than double the money for something I did not use that often, plus the Bosch is quite heavy where as the Metabo is relatively light, so easy to lug around.
..nb it took me about 3 months to decide which one to get. All the ones on my original list fell by the wayside for various reasons. (I initially liked the Makita, but the ones I actually saw (no pun intended) did not "feel" good quality in the sliding rails, and as per above some really bad reviews.
Some saws too heavy, some no trench cutting (depth stop....Dewalt), some too expensive for the size I wanted (Bosch). So in the end Metabo was the only one left.
The only (minor) downside is that it only bevels one way, (most only go one way except Bosch..too expensive), and also the rails do stick out a long way at the back, so if space is limited on your "bench" this my be an issue but not for me as I normally use on a workmate, (..looking to buy a stand with he money I saved).
...and finally for £200 I think its good value for money and that is the amount I was happy to spend.
..so if I where you I would "go Metabo"...particularly if you can get a good deal..
Stevebod":1ezn5u9g said:
Cheers Steve,
That's the predicament I'm in, I've ignored reviews before & gone out and purchased a product and it's been superb, I've done it on tools, holidays & always been pretty lucky.
My cousin has the Makita & he swears by it, he knows someone who's got the metabo in 10inch form and again he swears by that. it's very difficult to decide which will suit my needs as I'm only going to use it as a hobbyist building a large workshop & odd jobs. I'm sure a normal cheaply thing would be suffice but that's never been the way I roll.
I wouldn't need it for work as I'm a jointer.
I spoke to the wife last night who even told me to go all out and wait for the KS 60 Festool and I replied they are the best money can buy but thbats going up another £150 and believe these machines are for those who want Spot on precision.
Obey your wife! I have the Kapex 120 and it is a superb saw. Accurate, cuts like glass and probably the best dust extraction of any SCMS. It is a delight to use and engineered and made to the highest quality. I doubt that the KS60 will be any different and I am going to look at one once my local dealer gets stock.
But caution, I am a Festool fanboy I am afraid ( apart from the Jigsaws which are pants) so take what I say with that in mind! But the beauty of Festool is that you can use it for 15 days, check it meets all your needs and if not, return it for a full refund.
If you do like the look of the Metabo, and I have several of their tools and am delighted with them, then may I suggest Amazon who have one in their Warehouse deals, as well as new, and have an excellent returns system should it not come up to spec.
But caution, I am a Festool fanboy I am afraid ( apart from the Jigsaws which are pants) so take what I say with that in mind! But the beauty of Festool is that you can use it for 15 days, check it meets all your needs and if not, return it for a full refund.
If you do like the look of the Metabo, and I have several of their tools and am delighted with them, then may I suggest Amazon who have one in their Warehouse deals, as well as new, and have an excellent returns system should it not come up to spec.
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