I have just ordered an overhead crown and a stacked dado for my Laguna F3. I will be putting it through the paces and report back here.
Charnwood W629 Table saw? 2 buy or not 2 buy.
- Thread starter Jackie H
- Start date
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Hi guys,
It is really good to learn from all this feedback from you more experienced guys. I am most definitely a 'hobbyist' (now retired with time to learn and do more, including vacuuming lol). I do think I will be happy with the Charnwood, I have not been dissuaded which is a good thing. I did not have any intention of using a stacked dado as I will be setting up a router table, so not an issue. The only time I have used such a thing was on a radial arm saw which seemed safe at the time.
On the T-slots, push comes to shove I could make up some UHMW runners but with the Sliding Table I am not sure I would need to do this.
To be fair to Charnwood their philosophy is to provide best value for money. They did say that to change the T-slot would amount to £30K at least cost to alter the tooling, so I get that.
The Dust Extraction is clearly a challenge but then PL appears to have a solution, I like a challenge but I also have time on my side so not a pressure issue.
It obviously would be different if I was going to be/trying to make a living out of this but I am content with my decision, thanks to all you guys, and it is a good reason too have joined UKWorkshop.
Jackie
It is really good to learn from all this feedback from you more experienced guys. I am most definitely a 'hobbyist' (now retired with time to learn and do more, including vacuuming lol). I do think I will be happy with the Charnwood, I have not been dissuaded which is a good thing. I did not have any intention of using a stacked dado as I will be setting up a router table, so not an issue. The only time I have used such a thing was on a radial arm saw which seemed safe at the time.
On the T-slots, push comes to shove I could make up some UHMW runners but with the Sliding Table I am not sure I would need to do this.
To be fair to Charnwood their philosophy is to provide best value for money. They did say that to change the T-slot would amount to £30K at least cost to alter the tooling, so I get that.
The Dust Extraction is clearly a challenge but then PL appears to have a solution, I like a challenge but I also have time on my side so not a pressure issue.
It obviously would be different if I was going to be/trying to make a living out of this but I am content with my decision, thanks to all you guys, and it is a good reason too have joined UKWorkshop.
Jackie
Reffc
Established Member
I think whilst the dust collection solution will work with the W629 as described above, having examined the W650, it has become apparent that it may not be as feasible because it uses a different rail mounted trunnion system for motor support (ie is not fixed directly under the table) and there is no means to fit the hopper effectively, but you should be able to address this more easily with the W629 Jackie.
The sliding table is good enough not to bother with a separate sliding mitre fence and has very little play in it but you'll pull your hair out getting it properly aligned! (we can help come that time...not in pulling your hair out obviously!).
For now, I'll just accept the dust issue and carry on regularly vacuuming the inside of the cabinet out and clearing the tilt mechanism. No big deal and probably good housekeeping for any cabinet saw.
RE mitre slots: you can buy plastic rails which fit and there are online plans for building a simple cross cut sled (to fit them to) with T slots in the top to accept mitre fences and to cut awkward shapes like tapered table legs or similar. That would be a better solution than the sliding table or a mitre fence for such cuts anyway. I find the sliding table handiest for quick cross cuts as making angled cuts using the pivoting arm fence is very hit and miss to do accurately without very careful set up. They're definitely made child's play using a large sled with the T slots so you can run T slot clamps after accurately setting the workpiece out against a reference marked on the sled and it gives you your first project to construct using the table so a win-win
The sliding table is good enough not to bother with a separate sliding mitre fence and has very little play in it but you'll pull your hair out getting it properly aligned! (we can help come that time...not in pulling your hair out obviously!).
For now, I'll just accept the dust issue and carry on regularly vacuuming the inside of the cabinet out and clearing the tilt mechanism. No big deal and probably good housekeeping for any cabinet saw.
RE mitre slots: you can buy plastic rails which fit and there are online plans for building a simple cross cut sled (to fit them to) with T slots in the top to accept mitre fences and to cut awkward shapes like tapered table legs or similar. That would be a better solution than the sliding table or a mitre fence for such cuts anyway. I find the sliding table handiest for quick cross cuts as making angled cuts using the pivoting arm fence is very hit and miss to do accurately without very careful set up. They're definitely made child's play using a large sled with the T slots so you can run T slot clamps after accurately setting the workpiece out against a reference marked on the sled and it gives you your first project to construct using the table so a win-win
Hi all,
I just wanted to let people know the outcomes of my original post and update folks on my experience.
I did go ahead and buy the Charnwood W629. For personal health reasons my project got put on hold for a few months and its taken sometime for me to get to set up the machine and try it out. Here is my experience to date.
Delivery
The TS is circa 90-100 kg unboxed. I knew it would not be an easy task to get it into my new workshop. The workshop that I have built is at the back end of my garden and there is no direct access, I have to rely on my good neighbours to allow me to take it through their garden. Understandably, Charnwood only deliver kerbside. I employed 2 strong guys to help me move it round into my workshop. This employed straps and bearers and was not an easy task given the awkward terrain, and especially as the workshop is a few ft above ground level (I hadn't built the steps at this point lol). Hats off to the guys as the TS rolled at one point and I thought damage may have been done, but they persevered and no damage done in the end. When I get chance I will do some posts on my workshop build for anyone interested.
Setup
The set up went pretty much as set out by Mathew Small (Charnwood W629 Table Saw Review).
Being more of a novice with this level of machinery it took me a while longer than Mathew to set it up, I would say 3-4 hrs+. As per Mathew, I needed to shim the rear extrusion and I did have to elongate the front adjustment slots to get the extension tables level with the CI. I also needed to adjust the fence plate to get it square to the blade and the T-slots did need deburring. The CI table was flat, to a few thou' as far as I could tell. Unlike Mathew I found the saw blade slightly out of alignment to the T-slots. This was a bit more tricky to resolve, having to remove the side enclosure, loosen some bolts and then lug on/tap the motor housing to get the adjustment. Not the most precise of methods. I did buy a dial gauge to assist me with the set up and this helped. When aligning the sliding table attachment I found it easier to use feeler gauges between the sliding CI & the main CI. I found the edge of the CI to be perfectly parallel to the T-slot (Vernier's) and hence the blade.
After the initial feedback my biggest concern and focus was around the dust extraction so I took particular note of the set up during assembly. Much of the advice offered pointed towards using a LPHV system. The W629 does have an 100 mm inlet (T connector) however this reduces to 70 mm internally to the blade shroud, which in itself is a resistance to airflow and there is a 28mm take off (90d) for the above table extraction.
I concluded this may create a fair degree of overall resistance (pressure drop) and hence significantly reduce the air flow rates achieved with an LPHV system at the point of use. In the end I decided to go with the Record CamVac. It is compact and has twin motors and pulls at high pressure. Whilst the headline flow rates are lower than say for an Axminster LPHV my logic was that the HP would easily overcome the internal resistance and actually deliver much higher extraction flow rates at the point of use. Axminster do say that anything below 70 mm will significantly affect flow rate. Watching Dennis' Hooked on Wood video review sealed the deal for me and I got a very good discount from RP @ the Midlands Woodworking show. BTW this unit is relatively quiet when fitted with the optional flex hoses to the exhaust outlets. As I have only cut a few pieces of wood thus far it is way to early to say if this was the best option. It leaves virtually no dust on the table surface but until I open things up and have a look inside and check the dust caught by the CamVac I can't be sure and I will need to cut a lot more wood LOL.
Overall at this point I am pleased with my purchase of the W629 and no regrets, time will tell.
Jackie
I just wanted to let people know the outcomes of my original post and update folks on my experience.
I did go ahead and buy the Charnwood W629. For personal health reasons my project got put on hold for a few months and its taken sometime for me to get to set up the machine and try it out. Here is my experience to date.
Delivery
The TS is circa 90-100 kg unboxed. I knew it would not be an easy task to get it into my new workshop. The workshop that I have built is at the back end of my garden and there is no direct access, I have to rely on my good neighbours to allow me to take it through their garden. Understandably, Charnwood only deliver kerbside. I employed 2 strong guys to help me move it round into my workshop. This employed straps and bearers and was not an easy task given the awkward terrain, and especially as the workshop is a few ft above ground level (I hadn't built the steps at this point lol). Hats off to the guys as the TS rolled at one point and I thought damage may have been done, but they persevered and no damage done in the end. When I get chance I will do some posts on my workshop build for anyone interested.
Setup
The set up went pretty much as set out by Mathew Small (Charnwood W629 Table Saw Review).
Being more of a novice with this level of machinery it took me a while longer than Mathew to set it up, I would say 3-4 hrs+. As per Mathew, I needed to shim the rear extrusion and I did have to elongate the front adjustment slots to get the extension tables level with the CI. I also needed to adjust the fence plate to get it square to the blade and the T-slots did need deburring. The CI table was flat, to a few thou' as far as I could tell. Unlike Mathew I found the saw blade slightly out of alignment to the T-slots. This was a bit more tricky to resolve, having to remove the side enclosure, loosen some bolts and then lug on/tap the motor housing to get the adjustment. Not the most precise of methods. I did buy a dial gauge to assist me with the set up and this helped. When aligning the sliding table attachment I found it easier to use feeler gauges between the sliding CI & the main CI. I found the edge of the CI to be perfectly parallel to the T-slot (Vernier's) and hence the blade.
After the initial feedback my biggest concern and focus was around the dust extraction so I took particular note of the set up during assembly. Much of the advice offered pointed towards using a LPHV system. The W629 does have an 100 mm inlet (T connector) however this reduces to 70 mm internally to the blade shroud, which in itself is a resistance to airflow and there is a 28mm take off (90d) for the above table extraction.
I concluded this may create a fair degree of overall resistance (pressure drop) and hence significantly reduce the air flow rates achieved with an LPHV system at the point of use. In the end I decided to go with the Record CamVac. It is compact and has twin motors and pulls at high pressure. Whilst the headline flow rates are lower than say for an Axminster LPHV my logic was that the HP would easily overcome the internal resistance and actually deliver much higher extraction flow rates at the point of use. Axminster do say that anything below 70 mm will significantly affect flow rate. Watching Dennis' Hooked on Wood video review sealed the deal for me and I got a very good discount from RP @ the Midlands Woodworking show. BTW this unit is relatively quiet when fitted with the optional flex hoses to the exhaust outlets. As I have only cut a few pieces of wood thus far it is way to early to say if this was the best option. It leaves virtually no dust on the table surface but until I open things up and have a look inside and check the dust caught by the CamVac I can't be sure and I will need to cut a lot more wood LOL.
Overall at this point I am pleased with my purchase of the W629 and no regrets, time will tell.
Jackie
Last edited:
Reffc
Established Member
I don't really think they can be beaten here at the price for a new machine without doubling the budget and looking at something like a Laguna Fusion table saw or similar. I have no regrets about buying the W650 but there are a number of design niggles which point towards lazy, ill considered design and being built down to a price.
SLM
Established Member
Which begs the question, why not buy a something that is of proven, lasting quality, such as a Startrite 275!
Reffc
Established Member
Does it? I didn't say it wasn't proven, useful and reliable. It is all of those things but like everything built down to a price has compromises not found on more expensive machinery. When on a budget and not able to move some of the larger old cast iron lumps like the Startrite into the workshop I used, the Charnwood was the perfect choice. I was aware of the niggles and they remain just that, niggles, as on the whole it's a great machine, cuts accurately, is robust, easily maintained and uses a quiet and powerful single phase induction motor so ticked all of the boxes within my budget. There's not a hope in hell I'd have got a much heavier Startrite into my workshop nor would it have fitted through the opening. We don't all have nice level approaches, wide openings and solid concrete floors. Mine is a converted double garage with the large opening section partitioned off for the usual garage paraphernalia and a standard door opening the other end which necessitated the door frame to be removed just to get the charnwood installed. At 129Kg, it was a struggle even for the two of us. I have no regrets as it's given years of reliable service and done a hell of a lot of work.
Ahh now, well I think that the good advice that was given did tell me that at the end of the day peoples needs and budgets are different and any 'niggles' with the Charnwood have thus far been only as I expected. Most, if not all people who have bought one have been happy with their purchase, niggles and all. That is how it sits with me at this stage. At the end of the day they have been designed and built to a price. I may not have cut much wood yet but I did rip thorough a 10" x 2" piece of lumber circa 2 m long without any problem and used the sliding table to cut some 18mm plywood sections without any issues. Per Reffc, access to my workshop was an issue and to be honest I thought I was lucky to get the machine in there intact. The 'steps' weren't there at the time LOL.
I will be experimenting with the extraction to test its performance and will let folks know.
Jackie
I will be experimenting with the extraction to test its performance and will let folks know.
Jackie
bilboburgler
Established Member
I have just bought the W650 for a Maker Space. The motor is very good, the fence is solid. I don't think we are allowed to use a Dado in the UK. The extraction port and pathways are terrible and I'm just starting to review the options. I'm going to replace the steel side panel with a transparent one and check over the unit with an anemeter to maximise the air movement in the space. If I learn anything useful I'll let you know.
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No problem using a dado stack if your arbour can take one. In a commercial setting it has to be guarded. In a private setting you can do as you please.
bilboburgler
Established Member
But I'm not a private individual, but a Maker Space. So we will stick to the law.
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You misunderstand my point: private v commercial workshops: HSE indicates that, in a commercial setting, it has to have suitable guarding and the saw designed to use it (arbour and maybe braking etc).
"A circular saw should not be used for cutting a rebate or groove unless the blade is effectively guarded. This is because the normal saw guard cannot be used. Suitable alternative guards and fixtures are necessary. Figure 8 shows an example of one method for rebating or grooving using Shaw guards. Where practicable, the tunnel formed by the pressure pads should be designed to meet the requirements of BS EN ISO 13857:2008.7"
