Bespoke doors and Part Q of building regs

[Doug71]

Am about to start making some external doors for a barn conversion but am drowning in all the part Q building regs for security.

Was planning on the doors being made of U/S Redwood but the regs say the timber should have a minimum density of 600kg/m3, this in theory rules out redwood at 510kg/m3 and Accoya which is about the same? Don't get me started on maximum panel sizes.

Am I missing something here, surely a 57mm thick Pine door is going to be quite solid?

Anybody else come across this or do you just get on and make them like I should?

I know the answer is speak to building control but just wondered how other people approached it?

Any advice or experience appreciated.

Doug

 

[tomf]

I know it's not a proper answer but BC will not care. They are too busy/lazy/lack the knowlage to look at door construction, they will check you have toughened glass where needed and that's about it.

 

[Doug71]

I know it's not a proper answer but BC will not care. They are too busy/lazy/lack the knowlage to look at door construction, they will check you have toughened glass where needed and that's about it.

I totally agree but my worry is the fresh out of college boy who is just looking for problems. There are quite a few doors and I don't want to risk them being condemned a few months down the line.

Doug

 

[MikeG.]

I second the previous post. I have only ever known a building inspector show an interest in the insulation of an external door, but never the density of the timber. I've made my own external doors from pine.

Don't forget, you are looking at the Guidance, not the regs themselves. The guidance is just one way of being in compliance with the regs, and if you can make a door which complies with the regs but not the guidance, then the inspector will accept it, even in the unlikely scenario of ever taking an interest in the first place. The Regulation says: "reasonable provision must be made to prevent unauthorised access to (any dwelling)" . Applies only in relation to new dwellings.

 

[Doug71]

I have just spoken with building control and they are saying doors should be hardwood, also just read online in some architect journal that they need to be hardwood, I did post a link but removed it as did not work.

Building control are saying it can be an insurance issue.

This really messes everything up as windows are all stained softwood and client on a budget.

Doug

 

[Doug71]

Just found this, mentions about no softwood about halfway down.

https://www.bereco.co.uk/blog/the-new-p ... s-for-you/

Doug

 

[tomf]

And yet you can get softwood external property doors from a number of suppliers.

I also find it amusing to have a super strong front door and then around the back have some large bifold doors which would take about 5 seconds to smash and walk through.

 

[The Bear]

Balsa is a hardwood, is the inspector saying thats acceptable?
The hardwood/softwood description is a stupid one to use in this situation in my opinion. Redwood/pine etc is fine for a door, if thats what you want to use. Most door and window companies will happily make out of ether.

Mark

 

[Adam9453]

I’m afraid compliance with regs and particularly fire related regs is going to come under much closer scrutiny over the coming years due to people’s eyes being opened by grenfell. I appreciate that security has nothing to do with what happened at grenfell but just advising that personally I would do what the regs say, is it really worth it for you to risk your business reputation to give them a cheaper door?

 

[pcb1962]

Balsa is a hardwood, is the inspector saying thats acceptable?

The OP also said "the regs say the timber should have a minimum density of 600kg/m3" I think that rules out balsa.

 

[Kev]

This is an interesting topic. What about woods such as Accoya. Had a look on their website as personally do not know if Accoya is a hardwood or a softwood and could not find anything. All it says is that it is produced from fast growing wood which suggests a softwood. A bit more searching suggests a density of 510kg/m3. Can we not now use this type of timber for doors and windows now?

 

[Doug71]

This is an interesting topic. What about woods such as Accoya. Had a look on their website as personally do not know if Accoya is a hardwood or a softwood and could not find anything. All it says is that it is produced from fast growing wood which suggests a softwood. A bit more searching suggests a density of 510kg/m3. Can we not now use this type of timber for doors and windows now?

It all seems a bit of a grey area but think how it works is you can make a doorset of what you like and send it off to be tested, if it passes the test it is part Q compliant. This would cost you a few thousand and then only a doorset with same specification is compliant. This is fine for mass produced stuff but when making a one off you have to go with Appendix B of approved document Q which is bespoke timber doorsets and goes in to detail about wood density, panel size, panel thickness etc etc.

Coastal ironmongery seem to do some scheme where you can become accredited but looks like that will cost a few hundred.

Doug

 

[tomatwark]

Southern Yellow Pine would work.


The building regs is why I stopped joinery manufacture, it was becoming to much of a pain.

 

[HOJ]

I was going to post in the other the thread about Ply doors, but this is more relevant, took some pictures of an new external door, which to me looks like laminated ply:

 

[MikeG.]

I imagine (without checking) that ply exceeds the density requirement (600kg/cu m).