Bench Grinders

[Sawyer]

I've been thinking for a long time of upgrading my grinder, which is one of those wet/dry cheapo jobs and not very good. My sharpening requirements are: (i) normal woodworking tools, (ii) carving tools and (iii) turning tools.

On (i) and (ii), recourse to the grinder is rare anyway as I use traditional freehand methods, which I find very satisfactory. Hence, I'm not tempted down the Tormek route, which seems to be inordinately expensive anyway.
So, most of my grinding is on the turning tools, also freehand.

Looking at options, I'm tempted by the Axi AW8SRG2 slow running grinder. Half the price of a Creusen slow grinder, but still a lot more than many standard 6" machines. Although I can grind without burning on a standard grinder, logic dictates that a slow grinder will make a better and easier job??

Any thoughts? Is there any real benefit in these slow grinders, or could the money be better spent on, eg. a standard grinder with good quality wheels? Is Creusen worth the extra? Even a wet grinding system (or do turning tools wear the wheels too much on wet stones)?

Any comments much appreciated.

 

[MMUK]

I shall be watching this thread, I also need to upgrade from my Machine Mart special which is now 12 years old.

 

[custard]

Even though Tormek (and Jet) offer jigs for turning tools I don't think wet grinding and turning mix very well, it's just an exercise in frustration as wet grinding is so s...l...o...w.

If you can grind on a normal grinder without drawing the temper then take advantage of your craftsmanlike touch and stick to that with a decent wheel and wheel dresser plus a better tool rest. That's all you'll find in some of the best workshops in the country.

 

[RogerP]

I've thought about buying either a slow speed grinder or a Creusen but frankly they seem way overpriced. After all a slow grinder just has a 4 pole motor instead of the usual 2 pole version and as for Creusen prices :shock:

I just stuck with my cheapo machine and put a couple of good wheels on it. Seems fine to me.

 

[MMUK]

I've thought about buying either a slow speed grinder or a Creusen but frankly they seem way overpriced. After all a slow grinder just has a 4 pole motor instead of the usual 2 pole version and as for Creusen prices :shock:

I just stuck with my cheapo machine and put a couple of good wheels on it. Seems fine to me.

6" 240v Creusen at Cromwell, £172 +VAT list price. With decent trade discount, probably around £100 :mrgreen:

 

[Spindle]

Hi

As someone who hasn't bothered to try and master freehand sharpening I have the following to offer:

Turning tools do not wear the wheel of my wetstone grinder, (Tormek), too quickly as long as the tool is kept moving over the surface.

I frequently 'touch up' the edge of my tools during turning, a process that takes less than a minute on the wetstone, which I don't consider to be excessive.

Wetstones are too slow for re-profiling tools - I use a normal speed 8" grinder fitted with an 80 grit white wheel for that. (I use the Tormek jigs on the white wheel grinder).

My next upgrade will be to fit a ceramic blue wheel to the 'other' end of the 8" grinder.

The only benefit I can see to employing a slow speed grinder is to limit the amount of metal removed during sharpening - if this is an issue then I think using a wetstone is a better solution to a half speed grinder. If it's not an issue I'd stay with the regular grinder but fit better wheels.

Regards Mick

 

[RogerP]

I've thought about buying either a slow speed grinder or a Creusen but frankly they seem way overpriced. After all a slow grinder just has a 4 pole motor instead of the usual 2 pole version and as for Creusen prices :shock:

I just stuck with my cheapo machine and put a couple of good wheels on it. Seems fine to me.

6" 240v Creusen at Cromwell, £172 +VAT list price. With decent trade discount, probably around £100 :mrgreen:

It would be £206 to me. I'm not trade and can't claim back VAT - and no idea who give that sort of discount.

 

[CHJ]

.......Any thoughts? Is there any real benefit in these slow grinders, or could the money be better spent on, eg. a standard grinder with good quality wheels? Is Creusen worth the extra? Even a wet grinding system (or do turning tools wear the wheels too much on wet stones)?....

My very cheap grinder which was fettled in 2005 is still going strong and does not cause me any problems producing sharp enough tools for my turning.

All you need is a motor that runs freely with enough torque that it does not slow down when in use and decently balanced wheels.

If you have a blue wheel you will probably never have to dress it unless you abuse it as they are in the main far better at self sharpening.
My white Oxide has not been dressed for over twelve months and is not glazed and cuts freely, trick is to keep tool contact pressure to a minimum.

Here it is as of a few minutes ago, after a couple of months short of 9 years of regular use.

I do have a couple of other grinders that have appropriate wheels, one for my metal turning tools and one abused for rough grinding, but all are of the budget end of the spectrum as far as motors are concerned.

 

[deema]

I have just bought the 8" high speed Crusen after many frustrating years with a cheaply NuTool. I chose the 8" to keep the hollow grind on any turning tools to a minimum. I am sure to have stirred a hornets next with that comment, but it's just my view! IMO the slow running grinder is appealing to a mindset. Again IMO it's all about pressure on the wheel. You can burn any tool on any grinder I believe if you apply sufficient pressure.

The grinder comes with grey Alu Oxide wheels, which although not perfect for most people I have found to be perfect for all application. (Carving chisels, plane irones, chisels and turning gouged to name a few).

It was an Aximister offer (£120) on eBay which come up every now and agiain and fitted my meager budget. It' was a refurbished machine that had a faulty switch so was as new. I know the switch was faulty as they sent to me having forgotten to repair it! 10 out of 10 for Acimister who arranged for it to be picked up, repaired and returned within 4 days.

I would recommend the Axi diamond dressing tool just to ensure the wheels are tuned up. A second on the wheel and they are dressed. A few more if you need to balance them.

The difference to a cheaply grinder is unbelievable.

 

[CHJ]

Like all things in life it is judgment call based on you priorities and available disposable cash distribution.
If the tool is critical to you earning a living I guess it's buy the best you can afford.
If you want a posh shiny home/hobby workshop I guess the same applies.

For me it's always been achieving something that is serviceable enough for the job in most instances so that I have enough spare cash to explore other options or if the tool is critical to doing the job correctly or safely being able to bite the bullet when needed.

 

[Jacob]

Sorby pro edge is good but a bit pricey. I grind on a coarse belt and then carry on freehand on a stone. I don't use a wheel at all anymore.

 

[joethedrummer]

Like all things in life it is judgment call based on you priorities and available disposable cash distribution.
If the tool is critical to you earning a living I guess it's buy the best you can afford.
If you want a posh shiny home/hobby workshop I guess the same applies.

For me it's always been achieving something that is serviceable enough for the job in most instances so that I have enough spare cash to explore other options or if the tool is critical to doing the job correctly or safely being able to bite the bullet when needed.

Never has a truer word been spoken,,,whether it "s been myself buying a new tool or my wife buying some more shoes,,,,although,,no,,not the wifes shoes

 

[custard]

Sorby pro edge is good but a bit pricey. I grind on a coarse belt and then carry on freehand on a stone. I don't use a wheel at all anymore.

I've also switched to the Pro Edge, it's got a tool rest like the Rock of Gibraltar, but as you say it's not a cheap option.

 

[MMUK]

I've thought about buying either a slow speed grinder or a Creusen but frankly they seem way overpriced. After all a slow grinder just has a 4 pole motor instead of the usual 2 pole version and as for Creusen prices :shock:

I just stuck with my cheapo machine and put a couple of good wheels on it. Seems fine to me.

6" 240v Creusen at Cromwell, £172 +VAT list price. With decent trade discount, probably around £100 :mrgreen:

It would be £206 to me. I'm not trade and can't claim back VAT - and no idea who give that sort of discount.

I'll give them a call on Monday and find out my price through my account. It'll probably work out at around £150 with the Very Abhorant Tax (hammer)

 

[Grahamshed]

Given that you are going to buy a new grinder, and given that it is primarily for tool sharpening what would be the point in not getting a slow speed one ?

 

[Spindle]

Hi

I guess outlay has to come into it

You can get a Record Power 8" grinder with white and grey wheels for C £85

A Creusen slow speed 6" with two white wheels is C £255.

Or upgrade an existing grinder for the price of two wheels.

Regards Mick

 

[dann]

http://www.ashleyiles.co.uk/tool_sharpening.html

 

[Spindle]

http://www.ashleyiles.co.uk/tool_sharpening.html

Hi

I think I saw that system being demonstrated about ten years ago at the Scottish Woodworking Show, it was very impressive but ultimately aimed at carving tools - it also relied on reversing the rotation of the grinder so as the wheels rotated 'away' from you.

Regards Mick

 

[Grahamshed]

The Axi slow speed gets good reviews and is only £130. It actually came down in price this week.

 

[dann]

http://www.ashleyiles.co.uk/tool_sharpening.html

Hi

I think I saw that system being demonstrated about ten years ago at the Scottish Woodworking Show, it was very impressive but ultimately aimed at carving tools - it also relied on reversing the rotation of the grinder so as the wheels rotated 'away' from you.

Regards Mick

There is a small amount of modification to do to the grinder (10 min job)
It might be marketed as a carving tool system but I've used it on bench chisels and plane irons and for the cost it's awesome