being bumped.

[clewlowm]

well what can i say! just finished major refurb in london. had stage payments, final account is £11 thousand. now client says he does not have the money? . still have minor snagging and extra works to do. more inclined to remove fitted materials+pull off site. any advice?

 

[Ironballs]

Speak to a brief, Mr T had a similar case recently, there was a bit of a thread in the General section, should be able to find it in there.

Good luck and sorry to hear that

 

[clewlowm]

thanks for that. i will have a look now.

 

[maltrout512]

I had a small situation compared to you some time back. I pulled all the timber off site as it had not been paid by the customer. No further action was taken BUT I yes I could have been had in court by the customer, for taking wood that I bought and had not been paid for,(customer) off his property. Theft. The law may have changed but IMO I don't think so. Money down for materials plus 15% labour (time) if it goes wrong, pull out and walk away. I may well be out of line but I didn't like the situation and still don't.

 

[clewlowm]

i agree. what makes it worse is that i class them as friends! i know there is no such thing as friends in business, 1 phone call tomorrow morning too see if money is there. then i am removing materials

 

[Jake]

The uneasy bit is stuff that is fixed to the premises, but there is some truth in that saying that possession is 95% of the law. Really, that means that it costs a lot to argue about the rights and wrongs in law.

Even in law, does it damage a carcass (assuming it is fixed to the premises) to remove the hinge? I'd argue that it did not (but that it did, if paid to).

 

[neilyweely]

I would do the same thing as you propose, but before I did it I would make a phone call to someone in the know to ask for alternatives (legal recourse) but if there was none then.....

But then thats me. I have been hit for sums totalling about 22k in the last two and a half years. It stings a bit, doesn't it?

Is there any way you could arrange a part payment gig with them? I know it's not ideal but even a monkey a month is better than nothing.

Really sorry to hear that. My brother just lost his house thru similar.

Neil

 

[RJP]

Sorry to hear that, I'm in a similar situation myself at the moment. I'm owed £5.5k by a construction firm after their cheque bounced. They promised a bank transfer today but didn't do it. Been ignoring my calls and when I finally managed to get hold of them they say they can't pay because they've got no funds.

I have threatened to have a word with the client as I know they have more work to do there. I don't really want to do this as the client is a big hero of mine (Ex Man Utd player) and a very nice person but if nothing happens by the weekend I'm knackered.

 

[johncs]

I had a small situation compared to you some time back. I pulled all the timber off site as it had not been paid by the customer. No further action was taken BUT I yes I could have been had in court by the customer, for taking wood that I bought and had not been paid for,(customer) off his property. Theft. The law may have changed but IMO I don't think so. Money down for materials plus 15% labour (time) if it goes wrong, pull out and walk away. I may well be out of line but I didn't like the situation and still don't.

Here, a clause to the effect "goods are mine until paid for" is effective. I'd guess it should be in quotes and invoices.

Regular invoicing should help. Goods are not used until paid for, work ceases if there's a payment delay.

We had some landscaping done a while back. There was a fair bit of work, but the young fellows were on the job one day, elsewhere another. It was entirely unsatisfactory from our POV. I speculate that they were doing some smaller jobs to maintain an income until they finished ours.

They could easily have divided ours into three jobs (front, back, fence) and had progress payments, the money was in the bank waiting for the work to be done.

I think you need to establish milestones that both sides are happy with, and normally "hours worked" would not be satisfactory to me as a client.

Oh, if you provide the goods, you should charge a margin. It's costing you time which keeps you from other work, and you carry some risk as evidenced here.

None of this helps now; the best advice I can offer now is to not muck around. The faster you act, and the more serious you seem, the better your prospects of getting the money. If you have problems extracting the money, there may be other creditors too.

 

[johncs]

Sorry to hear that, I'm in a similar situation myself at the moment. I'm owed £5.5k by a construction firm after their cheque bounced. They promised a bank transfer today but didn't do it. Been ignoring my calls and when I finally managed to get hold of them they say they can't pay because they've got no funds.

I have threatened to have a word with the client as I know they have more work to do there. I don't really want to do this as the client is a big hero of mine (Ex Man Utd player) and a very nice person but if nothing happens by the weekend I'm knackered.

RJP
You should talk to a lawyer, offering a dud check may amount to fraud.

It's worth asking, maybe on the invoice, for an affirmation that funds are available.

 

[BradNaylor]

As Jake suggests, anything that is fitted to the structure of the building is now legally the property of the client, and to remove it could be construed as criminal damage or theft. I once knew of a builder who did not get paid for a front porch he had built. He went round and knocked it down, getting himself a six-month prison sentence.

I would simply remove all doors and drawers from fitted furniture, and take away anything freestanding. If no damage is caused, the police will almost certainly not be interested in what amounts to a civil dispute. If the client threatens legal action, point out that if they can afford to instruct a solicitor they can certainly afford to pay your bill.

If they make a part payment return a couple of doors - and so on.

Its time to play hardball - but be careful. You also need to be quick; they could go bust any day and that would mean an end to any chance you have of getting any money at all.

Cheers
Brad

 

[BradNaylor]

Sorry to hear that, I'm in a similar situation myself at the moment. I'm owed £5.5k by a construction firm after their cheque bounced. They promised a bank transfer today but didn't do it. Been ignoring my calls and when I finally managed to get hold of them they say they can't pay because they've got no funds.

I have threatened to have a word with the client as I know they have more work to do there. I don't really want to do this as the client is a big hero of mine (Ex Man Utd player) and a very nice person but if nothing happens by the weekend I'm knackered.

Bummer.

From what you have said it looks very likely that the constuction firm is about to go out of business. Your chances of being paid by them look slim.

You best chance probably lies with a direct approach to the client. Hopefully he hasn't paid in full for the work being done just yet and so will have a lot of leverage over your debtor. Plead your case well and you might get him to pay you directly and deduct the amount from his final payment to the contractor.

You need to be quick, though. It sounds like they may have gone bust by next week.

Cheers
Brad

 

[johncs]

I would simply remove all doors and drawers from fitted furniture, and take away anything freestanding.

Before doing anything of this kind, talk to a lawyer. If the client does go broke, you don't want to be pursued by a cranky administrator.

A lawyer will tell you what your rights are, what actions you can lawfully take, and if he's wrong your legal opinion will help ameliorate any action against you.

 

[Karl]

Tricky one.

Is the stuff you have supplied worth anything once removed? ie can it be re-used/sold on to another client? Or is it bespoke and worth nothing to another client.

There's no point in ripping stuff out if it is worthless. Apart from giving you the satisfaction of knowing that the client isn't going to get the benefit of something they haven't paid for.

If, on the other hand, you can salvage some of your loss by removing materials, that would be the sensible route to go. Tell the client that you'll bring the materials back and finish the job once you had the final payment in cleared funds.

There are alternatives - is the client an individual or a company? Is it their home you are working on?

Cheers

Karl

 

[adzeman]

What a bummer, There was a big test case with the bricklaying Contractor for the British Library. (my daughter was one of the surveyors) He went back and pulled down all the walls his guys had laid. At the hearing it was found he could do this having not been paid for the labour but he did not clean and neatly stack the bricks, (which were not his). Or replace any broken ones.

It comes down to that Legal word "reasonable" What ever you do, do it in a reasonable manner that is do not act "vexatiously" another Legal word.

 

[PAC1]

Let me clear up a few myths.

If you have delivered materials to site and they are not fixed or built in to the structure then, unless you have agreed otherwise, they remain yours and you can remove them. Once they are built into the structure i.e a brick wall or a door fixed in a frame then the ownership passes to the owner of the land and you cannot remove them.

If a contractor bounces a cheque then the appropriate actions is an action on the bounced cheque. There are very limited defences to an action on a bounced cheque and so such an action can proceed quickly and relatively cheaply.

If you have a written contract (a quote and a letter accepting the quote will do) and the works are not for a domestic home then you could use a very quick process called "adjudication" to sought the rights and wrongs out.

 

[head clansman]

Hi


Well IMHO. Its a bummer when people do that to you , i would ignore the law remove what you know is legally/morally yours including what has been fitted.

If this person who now says he cant pay you is genuine , then he wont be able to afford to take you to court, or is he trying it on . life's bloody hard at times and theres time we have to be harder this unfortunately for you is one of them. good luck . hc

 

[big soft moose]

Hi


Well IMHO. Its a bummer when people do that to you , i would ignore the law remove what you know is legally/morally yours including what has been fitted.

If this person who now says he cant pay you is genuine , then he wont be able to afford to take you to court, or is he trying it on . life's bloody hard at times and theres time we have to be harder this unfortunately for you is one of them. good luck . hc

the trouble with ignoring the law is that it puts you in the wrong , and you wind up with a bunch of materials that only fit that bespoke project - and are bobbins for anything else.

The other thing to consider is the reason why he cant pay - is he on the edge of bankruptcy, is he a lairy gett, or is he waiting for some money from somewhere else. if its the third one you might be better seeing if you can arrange some phased payments , as even if he bites the dust before he can pay them all £5k now is still better than nothing (and considerably better than a lengthy court battle about who owns the materials).

 

[clewlowm]

just a brief update. after many phone calls and a threat to pull off site! the money has appeared in my bank. somehow think this is my last job for this client, thanks for all the great advice you have given me.

 

[TrimTheKing]

just a brief update. after many phone calls and a threat to pull off site! the money has appeared in my bank. somehow think this is my last job for this client, thanks for all the great advice you have given me.

Glad it worked out for you mate. Steer clear of them as you say.