Behold, the Speed Tenon...

[Orcamesh]

Not sure if any of you have seen this (probably some have), but if you check out the movie on this webpage at Fine Woodworking you will see the speed tenon technique on a table saw. Not for the feint hearted!

I have not tried this, nor do I necessarily recommend it, but just thought I would bring it to your attention for further discussion (pros & cons etc)...

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/42295/behold-the-speed-tenon

I'm sure this will generate some discussion! :wink:

Right, I'm out of here now...! :lol:

cheers
Steve

 

[Steve Maskery]

It's an old technique that they rehash on a regular basis. It still has all the guarding issues associated with cutting tenons on the TS, and needs shimming properly to get a good fit.
I wouldn't swap my jig for it, that's for sure!

The scary part (apart from the thing itself) is that many beginners look at FWW as the authoritative resource of good practice, which this most certainly is not. So the most inexperienced are being put at unnecessary risk.

S

 

[WellsWood]

..."the trick is to keep your fingers safely away from the blade as you push the work (sideways) into the blade"...

you don't say :roll:

Usual bonkers stuff from the states

 

[jimi43]

He's got a riving knife!! :shock:

Whatever next!

Sorry but um....no way...

I remember that comment someone here made something like "if you wouldn't put your watsit near it don't put your fingers there".

Mine's staying firmly in my trousers...um...pants...no trousers! :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[Lord Kitchener]

It surprising that, considering how fond the yanks are of suing each other, that a firm would publish a video like this.

 

[Chems]

I don't see anything massively blow your face off scary, not something I wouldn't try but not something I'd have come up with on my own. but then a lot of you are TS wimps

My concern would be for the saw and blade, isn't this kind of sideways pressure going to affect it over time?

 

[tomatwark]

One of the firms I worked at about 25 years ago this was how we did it.

I did not like it then and still don't

Give me a tenoner any day.

It is just as dangerous as a stacked dado which if you were to put your hand into would do alot more damage.

Tom

 

[thecoder]

It's an old technique that they rehash on a regular basis. It still has all the guarding issues associated with cutting tenons on the TS, and needs shimming properly to get a good fit.
I wouldn't swap my jig for it, that's for sure!

The scary part (apart from the thing itself) is that many beginners look at FWW as the authoritative resource of good practice, which this most certainly is not. So the most inexperienced are being put at unnecessary risk.

S

If you were to cut the mortices first then just cut and try as you went along so ensuring a tight fit ?.

Sorry if that sounds like a daft question I just wondered

 

[mailee]

Not something I would try myself. I also am more concerned about the sideways flex on the blade. I will stick with my jigs and dado blade thanks.

 

[Orcamesh]

Yep, couldn't agree more with your comments, it certainly looks like a technique just asking for trouble. Not something I would attempt. The two ways I make tenons is with bandsaw or woodrat (no room for a tenoner in my workshop!), and both of these seem to work quick enough for me, and I've still got all my fingers! :shock:

 

[Steve Maskery]

It's an old technique that they rehash on a regular basis. It still has all the guarding issues associated with cutting tenons on the TS, and needs shimming properly to get a good fit.
I wouldn't swap my jig for it, that's for sure!

The scary part (apart from the thing itself) is that many beginners look at FWW as the authoritative resource of good practice, which this most certainly is not. So the most inexperienced are being put at unnecessary risk.

S

If you were to cut the mortices first then just cut and try as you went along so ensuring a tight fit ?.

Sorry if that sounds like a daft question I just wondered

Sorry, I missed this.
As regards the fit, yes you would cut the mortices first. But if the mortices are anything other than absolutely central, any tenons need to be positioned to take that into account, and this technique doesn't. If you are making face=frames, for example, you want the tenons to be where the mortices are, not necessarily central. You can't move the tenon over by half a mill, for example. That is from a purely functional point of view, let alone the appalling lack of safety.

At the risk of blowing my own trumpet again, if you compare this technique with my UTTJ (follow the footer link if you are interested), it is faster than this, no test fitting, right where you want it, central or off-centre, and it's fully guarded. I don't see that there is any comparison.

S

 

[Streepips]

Must say I agree with Chems on this one. I have used this method and a similar one, where instead of removing waste by sliding the piece sideways into the blade, after the shoulder cut then further crosscuts spaced at 1/2 " then chisel out the waste.
Nothing remotely scary or dangerous about it. If you think there is then its easy enough to build a cage round the business end to enclose it completely. You dont need to see it happening once its set up.
As for unequal shoulder setting for face frame etc, whats so hard about setting the rise and fall? Or staggered shoulders by moving the fence?
Speaking of which I always set it up with a dummy lead in fence that stops before the blade, so when the cut is made the piece is not in contact with the fence. Kickback is never nice.
As for accurate, you bet it is. Yes Mortice first and make tenons to suit. I have done just as many on the RAS, similar thing just basically upside down. Also, if I recall, one of the functions on the RAS was deep moulding, blade in rip setting but angled, feed work through and curved cutout IE scotia type moulding . No mention there of "undue sideways" pressure on the blade. Blades are planty stiff enough, you can feel when you are pushing equipment beyonds its reasonable limits of use. If you can`t, then do not use the kit because its YOU that are dangerous, not the equipment or the methodology..
Then again its probably the people that cannot fathom how to safely use a RAS rip setting that frown upon this tenon cutting method too.
Oh and I am not a bull in a china shop wood bodger . No digits missing or maimed either.
Saying that, its not for all woodworkers. Some are in the workshop every day, some just evenings and weekends, some once a month. Just do what you yourself feel comfortable with, keep it simple, keep it safe.
Measure twice. Think four times, cut once.

 

[kirkpoore1]

I'd like to comment on this, since I've made tenons a number of different ways, but I can't find the link to the video--and I've been to that page two or three times trying to find it. Anybody care to post the direct link? Or maybe it just doesn't show up with Firefox. I do see a big gray box on the upper right--should that be it?

Edit: Ah, there it was. I switched over to Internet Exploder and it showed up.

Frankly, this looks like something for a shop with only a tablesaw, or if you're only doing a few tenons. For more than a few tenons, a tenon jig on the tablesaw plus a radial arm saw to do the shoulders would be faster and less vulnerable to operator error. Of course, I'll really know what's fast when I finish my tenoner restoration.

Now I have go wash my hands after using IE...

Kirk

 

[theartfulbodger]

Worked for me in FFox.
Do you have version 8 installed?

 

[kirkpoore1]

Worked for me in FFox.
Do you have version 8 installed?

Yes. I figure Adblock Plus might be blocking it. No big deal, really.

Kirk

 

[Froggy]

I tried this today for the first time and I was suprised how good a tenon it turned out (very clean and acurate). I didn't feel that it was particularly unsafe either. However I do agree with Kirk in that it is probably ok for a small number of tenons but a jig would be better for a large number of them.

 

[Streepips]

Good on you for trying it Froggy,

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

I haven't done a full tenon this way before, never thought of it but I have used the trenching feature on a SCMS and this technique to make half lap joints, it saves cleaning it all up with a chisel. I have however made coving using a very similar method on the TS.

I cut my tenons first on the band saw then I cut the shoulders on the TS the very way he started the cut in the vid. I do use an auxiliary fence, only because the cheek once lose shoot at you if you don't. Some times the cheeks do catch the blade and hit you but its no big deal. I have had one hit my face but it barely hurts. I don't think its that dangerous if you have a mitre square that you can't lift out of the channel and is sturdy, you keep a good grip and don't go to fast. While the timber is flat I would say its safer then using the mitre square to cut through timber.

Table saws and decent blades at least should be designed to take a bit of sideway force. When cutting hard timbers the blades (more so thiner kerfs) can be forced to flex mid cut. I have one blade that if your only taking a mm or two off will flex every time and its a CMT blade that cost over £60 yet its still perfectly flat.

The vid method, would it still be considered unsafe if the you had an over the table guard in place and you only did it with the timber flat side down?

 

[Streepips]

Just had another look at the video and there are some differences between that way and the way I do it. In essence they are very similar methods, but I prefer mine, even though it is probably slower.
Firstly, I do not use a slot mitre gauge for this. Or for anything else come to that. I loath the things! Just a personal quirk, maight be OK for cutting firewood but not my work oieces thank you.
I use a sliding table. much more control and smoother. Sliding beam table to be precise. ( and it is)
The video shows a cut at the shoulder line then sideways cuts to take arcs out of the timber across to the end of the tenon.
I make the shoulder cut, ( same first cut) then position the work piece in stages a distance of 1/4 or 1/2" further away from the fence ( hard or soft wood. larger or smaller shoulders to make determine this)) in steps to make further parallel cuts to the end of the tenon then repeat on the other side. THEN I will either use the sidways method as shown just clean up or more usually ( and faster) just clean up with a paring chisel.On smaller tenons you can almost rub the waste off with your thumb at this stage before you chisel,. So the sideways pressure on a blade will be negligible.
Also, if I do clean up with the sideways cut, unlike the video I cut/slide in both direction, towards and away from the fence alternately as I move the work slowly forwards. . He actually wastes a move by sliding the piece sideways and not taking a cut!
I do not think a guard is necessary the way I do it, the blade is hardly above the table surface and using the sliding table fence with a toggle clamp means your hands do not need to be anywhere near the action. For those that want it, a guard would be easy to rig up, even a perspex one if you want to work to pencil lines etc.

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

I have done it just the way you have spoken of before other then no side way through the blade. I did it quite often with a SCMS also then smash out the remaining fins for half laps, lap and housing joints. Its a common method with a SCMS on sites or other early fix stages. I also use a sliding table for longer larger pieces but I find my mitre sqaure better and easier for smaller pieces.