Beginner question - plate turning

[Chris152]

I found a copy of Hoadley's Understanding Wood under the Christmas tree yesterday, and reading through some of it I realised that I need to learn to use a lathe. I used to throw and turn fairly large ceramic plates when I was younger and I want to learn to do that with wood. SO:

1. Can anyone recommend anywhere I can go to get some experience in using a lathe near Cowbridge, South Wales? (I searched online and the nearest club/ centre that still exists seems to be Bristol?)

2. What kind of lathe would be suited to turning plates/ low bowls up to around 45/ 50 cm diameter? I searched online and there's talk of bowl-turning lathes as opposed to spindle lathes, but I can't find that distinction in the shops.

3. Do I need to think about chip extraction or dust extraction, or is it all about ventilating face mask/ protection? And can these things be sited outdoors under cover or is that just a mistake?

So, in a nutshell, I know nothing but have an ambition to learn - if there's a good weblink that would save your time replying, please post it!

Thanks for any advice/ thoughts

Chris

 

[Dave Brookes]

Chris,
Vale Woodturners meet at The Reading Rooms in Bovilston which doesn’t look far from you, details can be found on the AWGB Website. Before you spend any hard earned money, go along and talk to the members (most clubs will allow ‘newbies’ a few visit free of charge) look at the club’s equipment and possibly have a go or watch very intently.
There are numerous aspects to consider wrt personal Health & Safety so please take note of them, in particular remember that you lungs are for breathing and not for filtering wood dust.
Having said all that, welcome to the addictive world of wood turning.

Dave

 

[Chris152]

Brilliant - thanks Dave. I did check the AWGB site but only looked under 'Training'. That's just up the road from here and I'm free Tuesday evenings, so perfect.

Thanks again

Chris

 

[Phil Pascoe]

As always .................... buy yourself a newer copy of this - http://www.waterstonesmarketplace.com/b ... &hs=Submit

As a above - don't spend until you've a little more knowledge, you might end up up with shelves full of first class, useful equipment .......... that's first class usefull equipment for someone else, but not for you.

 

[Chris152]

Thank you, Phil - a copy's on it's way! Chris

 

[CHJ]

2. What kind of lathe would be suited to turning plates/ low bowls up to around 45/ 50 cm diameter? I searched online and there's talk of bowl-turning lathes as opposed to spindle lathes, but I can't find that distinction in the shops.

You don't need a 'bowl lathe' to turn platters, with smaller bed clearance lathes you need one that has swivelling or sliding* headstock to allow clearance for larger diameter. * the latter has positional and access requirements.

I turned these:-

on this

3. Do I need to think about chip extraction or dust extraction, or is it all about ventilating face mask/ protection? And can these things be sited outdoors under cover or is that just a mistake?

Most certainly to all the above, extracting to outside the shop is an ideal for dust safety but can have a heat loss penalty in winter.

Expect to spend at least as much as your lathe on dust control and PPE if you are to get anywhere near industry HSE recommended/mandatory levels of protection.

 

[Chris152]

Ok, thanks CHJ - I'll look out for prices on a swivel or sliding head lathe.

On the extraction/ outside site, I meant - could the lathe be sited outside under cover? In which case, would a face mask extractor be sufficient? A friend has a wood yard and has large saw and machinery in open-sided barns and doesn't seem to have a problem - my garage/ workshop's getting full and it might be an option? (Is yours located outside? It looks so in the photo?)

Cheers,

Chris

 

[nev]

A specific bowl turning lathe has no bed and therefore no tailstock, so you cannot turn items between centres e.g. spindles and anything fine that requires support from both ends.
The limiting factor of 'ordinary ' lathes when it comes to bowl turning is the spindle height above the bed, so if e.g. a lathe has a distance of 6" above the bed, the largest bowl/ plate you could turn would be under 12".

from http://www.recordpower.co.uk/magazine/p ... ide/id/174

The advantage of a swivel head is to increase the capacity of the lathe so that you are not restricted to the swing over the bed and also to give greater access to the workpiece. Left handed turners in particular will find a lathe with a swivel head essential in order to avoid working awkwardly over the lathe bed. If required, optional bowl rests are available to make the most of the larger capacities that swivelling heads offer.
Some lathes feature a fixed headstock and an outboard turning facility (turning from the opposite end of the headstock than is usual, to gain more capacity) but outboard turning requires a host of left-hand thread accessories to be purchased.

An example of an affordable swivel head lathe would be the Record Power CL range

Union graduate (in bowl mode)

RP swivel head lathe

edit: CHJ beat me to it

 

[CHJ]

Ok, thanks CHJ - I'll look out for prices on a swivel or sliding head lathe.

On the extraction/ outside site, I meant - could the lathe be sited outside under cover? In which case, would a face mask extractor be sufficient? A friend has a wood yard and has large saw and machinery in open-sided barns and doesn't seem to have a problem - my garage/ workshop's getting full and it might be an option? (Is yours located outside? It looks so in the photo?)

Cheers,

Chris

My Lathe is not outside, that image of one of my old lathes was just taken outside when it was up for sale.

My extraction system is in a covered enclosure outside of the workshop. (mini lean-to shed)

In UK climate I would suggest that it is totally impractical to house a modern lathe outside a dry and warm (rust free) environment.

 

[Chris152]

In UK climate I would suggest that it is totally impractical to house a modern lathe outside a dry and warm (rust free) environment.

Ok, I can reorganise to fit one in - but, is it chip or dust extraction that I need? I have dust extraction for my bandsaw but no chip extraction - and they're pretty large units for chips, too. Would a dust deputy type thing between the lvhp extractor work (I plan to buy a Numatic NVD750 in the near future), or does it need to be hvlp?

I really appreciate everyone's replies - I'm already getting a clearer picture of what I'll need to get sorted.

 

[CHJ]

Because the dust dispersion when turning and sanding is so wide you need HVLP air to entrain as much of the dust as possible away from you, (and appropriate shielding to concentrate its entrapment) Chip extraction is secondary, if you are lucky you will see about 10% chip entrapment at the chuck.

Your intention to turn larger diameter items is a scenario indicating the need for higher volume air movement and more complex entrapment.

 

[Chris152]

High volume extraction could be a problem with space - I'm struggling to picture my little workshop with both lathe and extractor, without compromising the rest of the setup I have and really want to keep. Would it be possible to mount the lathe and stand on a base that allowed me to wheel it outside under cover to use (it's a fairly level run), storing it inside, and if so would a face mask with air filter be sufficient to work healthily? I just checked the weight of some lathes and they don't seem so heavy.

I guess the question I face before I start trying to learn is, is it feasible for me to get, store and use a lathe...

 

[CHJ]

Almost anything is possible, whether it's at all practical is another matter.

Personally I find it a constant quest to reduce the variables and maximise the permanence of my installation so that the system is prepped when I leave it and 'all systems go' as soon as I set foot in the shed.

 

[Chris152]

Well, I've had a reply from the Vale Woodturners and I'm going along to the next meeting! Thanks again for recommending, Dave.

I spent a couple of hours looking into lathes etc this morning, and it looks like one with a full range of speeds is good for turning larger things - which seems to just about double the price. So a Record CL4 or Coronet at just short of £1000 (with stand, for the CL4) - would that be a good choice? I'm sure it's a lot of machine for someone who's never turned with wood but I don't want to have to buy twice and have some clarity as to what I want to make.

And would this work for extraction?
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-tr ... tor-508483
It only filters to 1 micron but that seems to be the best I can find/ imagine paying for.
edit: actually, this extractor looks a better deal: http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ho ... eal-717658

The combined price is eye-watering, and obviously I'm going to have to be sure it's worth laying out the money before I get into turning - but it's probably good at this stage to have a sense of costs before I get too hooked!

Thanks

Chris

 

[Blockplane]

You have the Cardiff branch of Axminster close at hand. Find out when the turning demonstrations are on, good chance to talk not only to the demonstrators, but to fellow woodturners. I think you are allowed to play on some of the display machines?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Chris, another option of course is to keep an eye out for something half decent second hand, it doesn't need to be your ideal lathe but if you buy at a sensible price you can shift it on without losing much - once they're used they're used.

 

[Chris152]

The more I think about it, the more that's perhaps the way to go. If I found something with enough clearance to allow me to develop skills to turn up to a 12 inch plate, then it would be time to move on. The thing about electronic speed control and swivel head is only really about the ambition to do large, potentially wobbly pieces and that's got to be a way down the line. Something like the Axminster lathe that recently sold on the forum for £150 could have been perfect! (hammer)

Thanks Phil.

 

[CHJ]

The more I think about it, the more that's perhaps the way to go. If I found something with enough clearance to allow me to develop skills to turn up to a 12 inch plate, then it would be time to move on. The thing about electronic speed control and swivel head is only really about the ambition to do large, potentially wobbly pieces and that's got to be a way down the line. Something like the Axminster lathe that recently sold on the forum for £150 could have been perfect! (hammer)

Thanks Phil.

By no means an ideal world but it's surprising what's possible with care on a very basic setup.

 

[Chris152]

By no means an ideal world but it's surprising what's possible with care on a very basic setup.

Thanks for the link, Chas - that looks a hell of a lump of wood to work with, and a great result. It must be tricky turning that deep inside a bowl while maintaining support? Tbh I wouldn't even know how to set about splitting the log in the first place - lots to learn here!

I'm pretty convinced that a cheaper, used lathe is the way to start but need to find one that'll fit on a home-made bench (so I can store a vac and other stuff underneath) and has reasonable clearance for plates.

Thanks again

C

edit: whatever lathe I get, I really want decent dust extraction from the outset. Would you say this coupled with a cowl is suitable?
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ho ... eal-717658
It moves 2000m3, which looks good to me.

 

[Dave Brookes]

Chris, before you go spending hard earned cash at Axminster, check if Vale Woodturners have a Club account with them, I set one up for the Didcot Club and there was 5% off lathes and 10% off accessories. You may get your club subs for the year back with one purchase! Just a thought.

Dave