Bearing Down Single-Iron Wooden Planes

[J_SAMa]

I have just finished making my single-iron, 18th century-style plane. Having never used a plane that's alike I've got no benchmark to gauge its performance against. The main problem here is that whenever I take a shaving thinner than say 3 thou, I get a sensation that the iron is trying to come out of the cut, as if it's not sharp or has not enough clearance. It's the same no matter how I sharpen the iron. It works better if I press down on the plane, but that gets tiring after a while. The sole is perfectly flat (or at least as flat as all my Bailey planes), and as far as I can test with candle soot, the bed is well fitted to the iron at the top and bottom, same for the wedge and abutments.
Is it simply due to the wooden plane's lightweight? Or is it because single irons somehow don't pull themselves to task as much as double irons do? And in case it's relevant, the iron is 3 mm thick HSS, sharpened with a camber so that the center projects about 1 mm deeper when it is in the plane.

Edit: plane is bedded at 50 degrees.
Any input is appreciated

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UPDATE:
Well technically I only checked for STRAIGHTNESS of the sole, forgot to check for WIND #-o. Reflattened it and now it works fine. Can even take thin shavings like a smoother.
Bed flatness, sharpness and all that other stuff had nothing to do with it.
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Pics:
Too rough to be "showing off" (only my second attempt) but here it is...



Couldn't for the life of me plane that black line at the toe out. Looks even worse in flesh. Probably some sort of drying defect.

What bothered me the most was actually the carved finishing touches, like the eyes and vertical chamfer stops. Really difficult to get them looking identical.



Best looking one out of all 4. Not gonna show the other 3.


S/O to Mr. Caleb James for the plan:
http://kapeldesigns.blogspot.nl/2013/10 ... -18th.html

Sam

 

[lanemaux]

Hi Sam , and pardon me if this seems a daft question. When checking the flatness of the sole are you doing so with the wedge and iron tightened down (but shy of cutting depth)? Might be the difference between flat without wedge and flat with wedging stress that's tripping you up. Just a thought.

 

[Jacob]

I think a single iron plane is generally for rough work, with a well cambered blade. So it should dig itself in like a scrub plane and remove thick narrow shavings. Flatness doesn't come into it!
Some are called "box makers" planes but the boxes would be packing cases, not jewellery boxes.

 

[swagman]

Hi Sam , and pardon me if this seems a daft question. When checking the flatness of the sole are you doing so with the wedge and iron tightened down (but shy of cutting depth)? Might be the difference between flat without wedge and flat with wedging stress that's tripping you up. Just a thought.

lanemaux has highlighted a very valid point Sam.

 

[MIGNAL]

I don't think this is related to the use of a single iron but it might be related to the lighter weight of a wooden Plane. Try the Plane on a 'friendly' medium hardwood, something like Walnut or Cherry. Also check that the area just ahead of the blade isn't slightly hollow. A gap just ahead of the blade results in the plane having a tendency to skip. Your HSS blade may not be helping either. HSS takes some serious stropping before it even approaches the sharpness of carbon steel.

 

[J_SAMa]

Hi Sam , and pardon me if this seems a daft question. When checking the flatness of the sole are you doing so with the wedge and iron tightened down (but shy of cutting depth)? Might be the difference between flat without wedge and flat with wedging stress that's tripping you up. Just a thought.

Yes, that I did.

 

[J_SAMa]

I don't think this is related to the use of a single iron but it might be related to the lighter weight of a wooden Plane. Try the Plane on a 'friendly' medium hardwood, something like Walnut or Cherry. Also check that the area just ahead of the blade isn't slightly hollow. A gap just ahead of the blade results in the plane having a tendency to skip. Your HSS blade may not be helping either. HSS takes some serious stropping before it even approaches the sharpness of carbon steel.

Well, I checked the sharpness by slicing printer paper... Feels about the same as all my carbon steel irons when I do that anyway

If it really is just the lightweight of the plane, do you think it was standard practice for craftsman back then to press down hard on their plane? It seemed, to me, uncomfortable because of the height of the plane body.

 

[Jacob]

.....

If it really is just the lightweight of the plane, do you think it was standard practice for craftsman back then to press down hard on their plane? ....

No definitely not. The biggest (only?) advantage of a woody is the light weight and ease of working - if it is set up properly etc.
I suspect you do not have enough camber - a straight edge on any plane is very difficult to use, except on board edges much narrower than the plane blade. 1mm camber is straight ish, there's probably more like 8mm on a scrub plane
Though it might be the HSS - I don't know what difference it would make but it's not much used for plane blades which suggests it is unsuitable.

 

[Corneel]

What is the bedding angle of the blade? At angles above 50 degrees you will get noticeable less downwards force on the edge. As the shaving gets thicker the downwards force increases. This is the force from the shaving pressing down on the edge. In a heavy plane, like an infill, the shear wheight of the plane helps, but in a wooden plane there isn't much weight pressing the plane down and the user needs to help.

 

[woodbrains]

.....

If it really is just the lightweight of the plane, do you think it was standard practice for craftsman back then to press down hard on their plane? ....

No definitely not. The biggest (only?) advantage of a woody is the light weight and ease of working - if it is set up properly etc.
I suspect you do not have enough camber - a straight edge on any plane is very difficult to use, except on board edges much narrower than the plane blade. 1mm camber is straight ish, there's probably more like 8mm on a scrub plane
Though it might be the HSS - I don't know what difference it would make but it's not much used for plane blades which suggests it is unsuitable.

Hello,

Camber has nothing to do with it. At a very fine setting for a thin shaving, too much camber does nothing but make the shaving narrow, and this is just a waste of time sharpening an iron that never gets used towards the edges. Camber should be relative to the shaving thickness; very little for a smoother taking wispy, finishing shavings, more for a jack taking thicker, dimensioning shavings. But a small camber won't have a significant effect in the plane rising out of the cut. Higher bedding angles will, when they become significantly high. Blade sharpness is paramount. HSS is not easy to get handplane sharp. Cutting paper is not a good test of sharpness; I have kitchen knives that cut paper, but it is not the same sort of sharpness as found in planes. A ragged 'toothed' knife sharpened with a steel, or a coarsly ground plane iron will all cut paper. If everything else is OK in the planes makeup, like you say, then I think you might find a sharpness issue.

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

....But a small camber won't have a significant effect in the plane rising out of the cut. .....

Yes it will, without a doubt. A steeply cambered plane blade, like a scrub, will dive into the surface and need no downwards pressure at all.
I'd guess that the reason for rising out of the cut is that less camber requires more precision and rigidity to stay "in the groove". More camber / narrower cut will help - you can still get fine shavings.
Maybe it's down to trying to do something for which the plane is just not suitable. Try another plane.

 

[AndyT]

Sam

How about some pictures of your plane?
Also, you might want to pm Richard Arnold who has significant experience of 18th century planes and copies of them.

 

[woodbrains]

....But a small camber won't have a significant effect in the plane rising out of the cut. .....

Yes it will, without a doubt. A steeply cambered plane blade, like a scrub, will dive into the surface and need no downwards pressure at all.
I'd guess that the reason for rising out of the cut is that less camber requires more precision and rigidity to stay "in the groove". More camber / narrower cut will help - you can still get fine shavings.
Maybe it's down to trying to do something for which the plane is just not suitable. Try another plane.

Hello,

Only in the respect that you'll effectively be using a narrower cutter, with the obvious reduction in effort and resistance that would effect. You might as well just use a narrower plane. If you are wanting to take a near full width shaving, using as much of the width of the blade as there is available, then camber will not significantly make any difference. The OP is not talking about hogging off with a scrub, but finer smoothing cuts. We don't want anything more than a barely perceptible camber for that.

I do not camber any of my bench planes except for a very slight one on a smoother. (Scrub excepted) I have no problems of plane lifting with any of them, even full width cuts from a try plane. They are sharp, though. If the OP's plane is correctly made in all other respects, there is nothing left but a sharpness issue. Since he made the blade from HSS, it is not unlikely.

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

Only in the respect that you'll effectively be using a narrower cutter, with the obvious reduction in effort and resistance that would effect. You might as well just use a narrower plane. .....

Except a narrower plane (non cambered) will leave tramlines all over the place, impossible to remove. Which is rather the point of having camber in the first place - the cut feathers off nicely to zero at the edges and you can choose between fine/narrow to deep/wide with the same blade, as the timber demands.
This is an extremely basic principle of planing. Basically you can't effectively plane a board (wider than the blade) with a straight edge. I'm surprised you didn't know this Michael!

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Camber is useful, as you say, for not leaving plane tracks. Which is why I very slightly camber my smoothers - the last plane that will touch the wood. Try planes seldom plane boards wider than their soles, plane tracks are not indicated. Jacks are followed by smoothers, so their tracks are removed. This is why we have different planes for different jobs!

The idea of camber is a good one, and cambering all types of plane is fine, of course, it is just something that I have never done and find, for me, unnecessary. If I did a lot more hand planing from sawn boards, then I would have a jack with a slight camber as well as one without. But since I have planer thicknesser machines, I never take terribly thick shavings with my jack, so I keep the iron sharpened flat. But many irons I see are cambered too much. I want to use as much of the irons width as there is available. Too much camber reduces the width of cut and it is surprising how little camber is needed, to take a near full width cut and prevent track marks. It is literally a hair. Any more and the iron may as well be narrower and all that is achieved is never utilising 2 strips of tool steel at the edges of the blade, a waste of time and good steel.

I do find it beneficial for accuracy, not cambering jointers, I find it easier to keep square.

Mike.

 

[JohnPW]

Re pressing down, I would have thought you do need to press down to some extent regardless of what the plane is. But how much is too much and tiring?

If you have press really hard to get a very thin shaving, that sounds like the sole is concave.

 

[woodbrains]

Re pressing down, I would have thought you do need to press down to some extent regardless of what the plane is. But how much is too much and tiring?

If you have press really hard to get a very thin shaving, that sounds like the sole is concave.

Hello,

It is hard to make a definitive reply without actually handling the plane. Photos might help.If the OP is convinced the sole flattening was done well, then sole concavity will not be present. It could be the cause, though, if the wood has subsequently cupped, so worth re flattening and trying again.

It is hard to tell how much bearing down is too much. Some people are stronger than other and might think the plane is working well. There is an amount of downward force needed, which might just be a matter of getting a knack for it. However, I don't believe that the weight of a Bailey plane is going to more significantly exert a downward force over a wooden one. It is more likely the handles orientate the user to naturally bear down a bit more without realising it. If you look at Krenov style wooden planes, the rear of the body has a better shape for helping a more downward force whilst pushing. Maybe, all things being well otherwise, it would be worth re shaping the rear of the plane body.

Mike.

 

[swagman]

If the sole has been flattened correctly as prescribed earlier on, and your still having to bear down on the plane to engage a fine set, it does sound like the bevel on the iron lacks a good enough clearance angle.

Stewie;

 

[woodbrains]

If the sole has been flattened correctly as prescribed earlier on, and your still having to bear down on the plane to engage a fine set, it does sound like the bevel on the iron lacks a good enough clearance angle.

Stewie;

Hello,

Too small a relief angle is possible, and would present as the problem described. But the plane has a 50 degree bed. The iron would have to be sharpened at over 40 degrees for a less than optimal relief angle. Is the OP sharpening to the normal sort of 30 deree bevel? In which case should be fine in this regard. I still think sharpness is the most likely factor coupled with unfamiliarity with a wooden smoothers action.


Mike.

 

[swagman]

Hi Mike. It would seem doubtful that the primary bevel would come close to being at or slightly below 40*, but without photo's it does make it very difficult to accurately diagnose.

regards Stewie;