Bandsaw: should it stay or should it go?

[Helvetica]

I need some advise from the bandsaw gurus. I just bought a used startrite 352 from a machinery warehouse. It was not the bandsaw advertised. The one I paid £725 for looked exceptionally clean and looked after. The one I received has a table that is not level, a loose trunnion, snapped blade, and a rusty body. It is also clearly a different model. I want the guy to take it back and refund my shipping cost along with the £725.

I'm posting because maybe the saw isn't too bad, and if he agrees to refund half the price might be worth keeping. It's not the saw's fault it's owner was dishonest.

Is it easy to get the table level? Is body rust irrelevant? Do I just tighten the trunnion? Can you tell from the pics? Love to hear your thoughts lads. I'll try to upload photos (iPhone)

 

[Helvetica]

Few more pics. Is the brush on the wooden support on the lower wheel standard? Can anyone tell the age by the serial number? Thanks lads

 

[Dangermouse]

Hi
I cant say what it would take to repair your bandsaw. One would have to there and see it in the flesh, so to speak. But I can tell you the law. If you purchased online or by phone without seeing the item and it was delivered to you from the seller and the seller is a business, you are legally entitled to your money back, plus the shipping costs to return it to the seller, this ios covered by the " distance selling regulations ". The seller is legally obliged to refund this, for any reason you may state. In your case he also falls foul of Trading standards, in selling you a different saw than the one you ordered. So he doesn't have a leg to stand on and basically you can ask him to do whatever you like. Although if hes a con man, then you might have some trouble. At the last resort you can always take him to small claims court. Usually they settle when the summons pops through the door.

 

[flh801978]

It looks the work of say 60 minutes to fix the faults you list...... the rusty body slightly longer perhaps...

The brush is standard fitment

the others sound standard fettling proceedure after moving such a machine

however if its not the one you thought you were getting then complain away and see what you can get off

Ian

 

[Helvetica]

Sounds promising either way. I suppose YouTube is the way to get advise on squaring the table? This would be my first bandsaw. Cheers

 

[paulm]

Not sure what you mean about the table not being flat and needing squaring ?

The loose trunion should just tighten up with a spanner unless something is broken or threads stripped in the underside of the table.

Broken blade and rust wouldn't worry me on a secondhand machine (at the "right" price), the rust as far as I can see looks superficial and cosmetic ?

One of the bottom blade guides looks pretty worn though, the one on the right, although it could be flattenable on wet & dry or diamond plate possibly ?

More importantly does it work when switched on, check the tyre rubbers are in decent condition, and for any rumbles or roughness in the wheel bearings.

Cheers, Paul

 

[Steve Maskery]

That could easily be a fantastic saw.
What do you mean by the table not being level. Without a blade on, how can you tell?
Loose trunnions. Do you mean the table is not bolted on to them very well (get your spanner out) or do you mean the trunnions do not lock in place properly (should be easy enough to find out why).
If it's not the machine that was advertised, then follow the advice above. If you can get a partial refund, bite their hand off, as that could become a really excellent machine.

 

[Racers]

Hi,

I've got one of them fantastic machine.
I see you have all the bits, fence with depth stop, miter fence, spanner, usually one thing at least is missing.
The price o/k at half price not brilliant for the condition but o/k if it runs, don't worry about the blade it was probably knackered get a Tuff saws blade for it.
They lower guides are upside down and check the top wheel as the blade guard can gouge out the rubber, its not a big problem.

Pete

 

[Helvetica]

Thanks for all the feedback. I have spoken with the guy and he seems like a decent skin - offering to replace with another 352 (the one from the ad?). I may just ask for a partial refund now after all of your advise. ill post the outcome.

Ok I think my descriptions were as loose as the trunnion so let me clarify: the motor works, and seems pretty smooth. The drive belt is worn but not as bad as on my 1981 Beemer!

Tuffsaws blade arrived this morning: 3/4" vari-tooth.

The trunnion did indeed tighten up with a spanner. The angle-adjusters weren't sitting properly I think it's level now. I'll check squareness to the blade soon as I fit.

the two halves aren't level. If I place a straightedge on it, it will rock. The table has cupping! Having said that it's only 1mm out. Can it be adjusted / leveled, or is it tolerable?

Thanks for spotting the upside down lower guides Pete. I will defo flatten and correct them. I believe they are reversible. There seems to be plenty of rubber and it's pretty flat.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Is there not an alignment pin between the two halves of the table? I would expect to see one on a a Startrite.
S

 

[katellwood]

One thing that is often overlooked when buying a second hand bandsaw and mentioned by Paulm is the condition of the wheel rubbers and more importantly the crown on them.

If the crown is worn and become flat then you will have a pig of a job to get the blade to consistently track and as such will not be able to set the guides accurately

if there is enough rubber left on the wheels then you may be able to restore the crown, if not then you need to source new tyres for the wheels

Take a look at this which hopefully explain what I mean

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sM0Qjumyro

you may think you have the blade tracking correctly then cut a tenon cheek or similar cut on the saw, come to pull out of the cut and the blade comes with you

Remember current blade guide design (and startrites are unique as they have no moving parts) only prevents the blade from being pushed off the back of the wheels, there is nothing to prevent it coming off from the front when you withdraw from a partial cut and there is an element of binding

 

[Helvetica]

That video is interesting Katelwood. Good news, the saw is not made of Lego I believe there is some crown on the upper tire, hard to see the lower but maybe it's safe to assume both would wear evenly.

There is one possible issue: while the lower wheel seems to rotate without wobble, the same cannot be said for the smaller pulley that drives it. Could that wear out the motor?

 

[steve248]

Hi
I cant say what it would take to repair your bandsaw. One would have to there and see it in the flesh, so to speak. But I can tell you the law. If you purchased online or by phone without seeing the item and it was delivered to you from the seller and the seller is a business, you are legally entitled to your money back, plus the shipping costs to return it to the seller, this ios covered by the " distance selling regulations ". The seller is legally obliged to refund this, for any reason you may state. In your case he also falls foul of Trading standards, in selling you a different saw than the one you ordered. So he doesn't have a leg to stand on and basically you can ask him to do whatever you like. Although if hes a con man, then you might have some trouble. At the last resort you can always take him to small claims court. Usually they settle when the summons pops through the door.

This is absolutely not true. I have extensive experience with the law in this matter and you can see for yourself by looking at the freely published distance selling regulations that the return postage costs and in fact any of the postage costs are the responsibility of the buyer.

One important point to this is that the seller does need to state this in their terms and conditions but this is standard these days so I would not get your hopes up.

This is an area of the law that is often misunderstood and if you do not believe me then read the distance selling regulations yourself, they are very clear and it is very important to know the facts before going in heavy handed making demands based on myths rather than facts.

 

[Racers]

the two halves aren't level. If I place a straightedge on it, it will rock. The table has cupping! Having said that it's only 1mm out. Can it be adjusted / leveled, or is it tolerable?

Thanks for spotting the upside down lower guides Pete. I will defo flatten and correct them. I believe they are reversible. There seems to be plenty of rubber and it's pretty flat.

The only way to level the tables is to shim the bracket that the table pivots on, its bolted to each side and holds them in line, or not.
I had to do this to mine after fitting an extension to the left hand side, when I tried to level it up I found the two sides weren’t level.

Pete

 

[Dangermouse]

Hi
I cant say what it would take to repair your bandsaw. One would have to there and see it in the flesh, so to speak. But I can tell you the law. If you purchased online or by phone without seeing the item and it was delivered to you from the seller and the seller is a business, you are legally entitled to your money back, plus the shipping costs to return it to the seller, this ios covered by the " distance selling regulations ". The seller is legally obliged to refund this, for any reason you may state. In your case he also falls foul of Trading standards, in selling you a different saw than the one you ordered. So he doesn't have a leg to stand on and basically you can ask him to do whatever you like. Although if hes a con man, then you might have some trouble. At the last resort you can always take him to small claims court. Usually they settle when the summons pops through the door.

This is absolutely not true. I have extensive experience with the law in this matter and you can see for yourself by looking at the freely published distance selling regulations that the return postage costs and in fact any of the postage costs are the responsibility of the buyer.

One important point to this is that the seller does need to state this in their terms and conditions but this is standard these days so I would not get your hopes up.

This is an area of the law that is often misunderstood and if you do not believe me then read the distance selling regulations yourself, they are very clear and it is very important to know the facts before going in heavy handed making demands based on myths rather than facts.

I was under the impression that if the item was faulty the supplier was obliged to refund your postage.

 

[marcros]

Hi
I cant say what it would take to repair your bandsaw. One would have to there and see it in the flesh, so to speak. But I can tell you the law. If you purchased online or by phone without seeing the item and it was delivered to you from the seller and the seller is a business, you are legally entitled to your money back, plus the shipping costs to return it to the seller, this ios covered by the " distance selling regulations ". The seller is legally obliged to refund this, for any reason you may state. In your case he also falls foul of Trading standards, in selling you a different saw than the one you ordered. So he doesn't have a leg to stand on and basically you can ask him to do whatever you like. Although if hes a con man, then you might have some trouble. At the last resort you can always take him to small claims court. Usually they settle when the summons pops through the door.

This is absolutely not true. I have extensive experience with the law in this matter and you can see for yourself by looking at the freely published distance selling regulations that the return postage costs and in fact any of the postage costs are the responsibility of the buyer.

One important point to this is that the seller does need to state this in their terms and conditions but this is standard these days so I would not get your hopes up.

This is an area of the law that is often misunderstood and if you do not believe me then read the distance selling regulations yourself, they are very clear and it is very important to know the facts before going in heavy handed making demands based on myths rather than facts.

Page 12 of this OFT document states otherwise. If you are legally trained then perhaps you have more extensive knowledge, but I would have expected this to be accepted as an official source of information.

 

[Helvetica]

Before I bought it direct from the seller, he had it on eBay. I made an offer and if it was accepted, and he shipped me the wrong item, he would definitely have to pay to ship it back plus refund selling price. It may or may not be current law outside eBay/PayPal, but it sure is the trend.

 

[Jake]

Before I bought it direct from the seller, he had it on eBay. I made an offer and if it was accepted, and he shipped me the wrong item, he would definitely have to pay to ship it back plus refund selling price. It may or may not be current law outside eBay/PayPal, but it sure is the trend.

Not sure about that if you made the offer while the Ebay listing was current, as your offer would have been unlawful in that it would have been a (seemingly) interference in the contract between the seller and Ebay, in that you would have been inviting him to breach his contractual duties to Ebay. As you would know, such offers and off-site deals are against the contractual rules. As such you would have been committing an economic tort (interference with contract) and as such are probably a bit cabbage in the eyes of a court.

If the auction had expired, I don't know the rules.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Regarding the bandsaw itself, a couple of practical thoughts:

My little SIP's table can twist if I'm not careful adjusting the trunnion, leaving the two sides not flat with respect to each other. Since it's hardly ever used for cutting to exact dimensions*, and the issue is perpendicular to the blade, it's never a problem in use. In any case, the rail for the sliding fence pulls it true again after blade changing, and shimming that is pretty easy.

On crowning wheels, etc.: I'd expect a simple working formula value for the radius of curvature related to the diameter of the wheels, but I've never seen one. Having tyres in good nick matters though.

The top wheel on that one does look a bit worn. I was surprised to see quite a few decent bandsaw tyres on sale on eBay recently, and around Christmas Rutlands had them on sale (yes, I know!), although possibly not large enough for the Startrite. Olly posted here about changing and re-crowning the tyres on his Startrite (I think it's a Startrite) a couple of years ago - he had success, so it's evidently possible.

If the tyres aren't in good condition, I'd guess you will struggle to make any machine run right. That would be the single biggest thing I'd be worried about, simply because of the effort required to sort it out. If that wasn't as described it would be an issue for me, but even that isn't an insoluble problem. The complete wheels are available as spares too (or were a couple of years ago), so you're pretty much covered.

I'd go through it methodically, list the problems that will take time to address, and talk reasonably to the seller if you think it's massively reduced the value. Sorry you're disappointed, but it's still something I'd covet from here!

E.

*yes Steve M, I do use your simple tenon jig, just not very often!

 

[Helvetica]

OK I have negotiated a £275 partial refund for the saw so I'm pretty happy with it at £450 total. The lower block guides were very worn, one had half it's width sawn down by 4mm (god help the old blade!), so two new blocks on their way from ALT.

I have fit a new tuffsaws blade and just realised that the tension indicator isn't there - it has a pointing indicator, but there is no sign of LOW, MED or HIGH. I gave it a few turns tighter, do I need to just keep turning or is it missing?

The tyres are ok, the wear is close to the edge, so with my 5/8" blade centered it is safely away from the wear.