Bailey No6 Quandary - Plane Experts Knowledge Required!

[will1983]

I bought a baily no6 off eBay ages ago and decided to give it a bit of a clean up at the weekend. However it appears that the holes in the frog don't line up with the threaded holes in the bed of the plane.

The holes are the same distance apart but appear to be to far back in the bed by about 5mm. This has the impact that the blade will not project through the mouth, it clashes with the rear of the mouth.

Does anyone know what's going on there? Obviously the frog isn't the original and has been replaced with a similar but not an exact component at some point.

Apart from this the rest of the plane appears to be in good condition. I would like to start using it so if someone knows where I can get a new frog that will fit please enlighten me.

Thanks
Will

 

[Ttrees]

Taking the iron out of the plane, are you saying that the frog won't sit flush with the plane casting?

Tom

 

[MikeG.]

So was the plane in bits when you bought it?

 

[woodbloke66]

Does anyone know what's going on there? Obviously the frog isn't the original and has been replaced with a similar but not an exact component at some point.

Thanks
Will

You've answered your query already. The frog isn't identical to the original which is why the bolts and threaded holes don't line up; unless you're able to source an exact replacement for the original, the No.6 will never be a 'user' - Rob

 

[MusicMan]

Can this be fixed with a spacer plate of 6 mm steel?

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

If the plane arrive assembled, then you are more likely to have re-assembled it incorrectly. Are you experienced with Bailey planes?

There is about 5mm of adjustment in the screw at the rear of the frog.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[sploo]

If the plane arrive assembled, then you are more likely to have re-assembled it incorrectly. Are you experienced with Bailey planes?

There is about 5mm of adjustment in the screw at the rear of the frog.

On that subject - is the small plate that screws into the rear of the frog in the right slot on the adjustment screw? Occasionally it can end up in the wrong place when the frog is placed back onto the bed (assuming this plane does have the adjustment screw). Photos would be useful.

 

[will1983]

The plane was assembled when I bought it but needed some cleaning up which I didn't have time for then.
Recently I disassembled it to do the clean up and discovered that the blade had been fitted in reverse i.e bevel up to make it fit in the plane. I hadn't noticed this when it arrived.

I've restored and use bailey planes regularly so know how to set the blade in relation to the mouth but there isn't enough movement to get everything lined up. this leads me to believe that the frog is not the original one.

I'll get some photos tonight to show what I mean.

 

[will1983]

unless you're able to source an exact replacement for the original, the No.6 will never be a 'user' - Rob

I had another look at the plane last night and with Rob's words ringing in my ears I decided, b*gg*r it! Out with the needle files! After all if I mess it up, what am I left with? A plane the doesn't work, well I've got one of those already so nothing to loose.

I marked a square line across the bed with a scribe a mm behind the mouth and filed slowly back towards it. I made sure to match the bedding angle of the frog in the mouth. Second I gently lengthened the holes in the frog to give a bit more adjustability. Doing this uncovered some casting flashing inside the holes, there was a thick layer of paint previously obscuring this.

Modifications done, I reassembled the plane and took some test shavings on a bit of 4x2 I had lying around.

Obviously there is quite a bit of general cleaning up needed to get it working perfectly but I know it is worth it now.

A thought occurred to me, is it possible that this plane has never been fettled and therefore not been used properly since it left the factory? I suppose not every tool was bought by a woodworking expert, some would have been sold to people not in the know that tools need tuning before they can be used.

 

[D_W]

I'd bet there are a lot of planes that were never used that well from the factory. Lots of number five and four planes were sold to farmers and other sort of estate dweller types who heard they needed to have a plane.

I cleaned up FIL's #5 for him (luckily, he has a grinder - as the iron has been worn hollow in the center - I have no clue how anyone could've planed anything with it, I think they were probably just ramming it into wood and splitting chunks off) and sharpened it with sandpaper and newspaper, and we used it to trim several doors in his house that were rubbing due to humidity.

Here in the states in the northeast, we don't have the glut of record planes, but we have a TON of planes, and a lot of the later planes have no evidence of having ever been set up properly.

 

[woodbloke66]

unless you're able to source an exact replacement for the original, the No.6 will never be a 'user' - Rob

I had another look at the plane last night and with Rob's words ringing in my ears I decided, b*gg*r it! Out with the needle files! After all if I mess it up, what am I left with? A plane the doesn't work, well I've got one of those already so nothing to loose.

I marked a square line across the bed with a scribe a mm behind the mouth and filed slowly back towards it. I made sure to match the bedding angle of the frog in the mouth. Second I gently lengthened the holes in the frog to give a bit more adjustability. Doing this uncovered some casting flashing inside the holes, there was a thick layer of paint previously obscuring this.

Modifications done, I reassembled the plane and took some test shavings on a bit of 4x2 I had lying around.

Obviously there is quite a bit of general cleaning up needed to get it working perfectly but I know it is worth it now.

A thought occurred to me, is it possible that this plane has never been fettled and therefore not been used properly since it left the factory? I suppose not every tool was bought by a woodworking expert, some would have been sold to people not in the know that tools need tuning before they can be used.

Looks like you've done a pretty sound job on making your No.6 work...nicely done =D> As regards fettling, it's quite possible that nothing was ever done to it to turn it into a tool that worked much better than a standard No.6 straight out the box. Beware though, depending on your level of dedication, it can be a slippery slope to bring something like this up to pristine condition. I know, 'cos I've done it a couple of times and it takes a loooooong time - Rob

 

[will1983]

Lol I know what you mean, the number 6 success has inspired me to sort out the 5 hand saws and other bits I've had gathering dust in my "to be restored" box.

Picked up a couple of litres of white vinegar from B&M yesterday and set them to soaking with a few nice old chisels. I'll dig them out and give them a scrub tonight and see what I've got.

 

[sploo]

Vinegar is good (though smelly, and tools needs to be neutralised afterwards). A more expensive but much better option is EvapoRust: https://www.demon-tweeks.com/uk/frost-e ... src=aw.ds/

I swear by the stuff these days. Though I swear more when I spill it and waste a tub...

 

[woodbloke66]

Vinegar is good (though smelly, and tools needs to be neutralised afterwards)

Yup, agreed bog standard vinegar is good, but if you add a small teaspoon of salt to the brew it becomes lethal. Snape would be impressed! :lol: - Rob

 

[sploo]

Vinegar is good (though smelly, and tools needs to be neutralised afterwards)

Yup, agreed bog standard vinegar is good, but if you add a small teaspoon of salt to the brew it becomes lethal. Snape would be impressed! :lol: - Rob

Yep. That's what I've used in the past. Quite aggressive though; and parts need to be washed well with baking soda afterwards.

 

[will1983]

Do you actually need the baking soda, would not a thorough sluicing with water not have the same result?

Cheers for the salt tip Rob, if the results aren't good enough I'll give it a go.

In a previous life messing about with old rusty cars I've used this stuff;
https://www.bilthamber.com/deox-c
Damm expensive if you've only got a few bits to do but the results were always very impressive. Comes in a gel to for those bigger bits that can't be immersed. I've not used the gel though.

 

[sploo]

Do you actually need the baking soda, would not a thorough sluicing with water not have the same result?

I'm told that the acid can remain on/in pits and continue to attack the metal unless it's fully neutralised. Certainly parts that come out of the first washing tend to flash rust (in my experience), but they don't with EvapoRust.