Axminster TS200 - First impressions

[Bodgers]

This is my first vaguely 'proper' tablesaw. After almost getting over the fact that Axminster dropped the price on this by over £100 within a couple of weeks of buying this, I got it out of the box and set it up.

Negatives:

- I heard the pressed steel extension table wasn't up to much, but it is really bad. When I first got it out of the box, I thought "how bad could it be?". Pretty bad actually. The aluminium rails that it hangs on, and connects to the saw by, are perfectly fine and true. Problem is the actual pressed steel table - it is a joke. Basically the pressing near the edges push the corners up, resulting in a difference in height of around 10mm between the edges and the middle. There is also a support strip welded half way on the underside, which results in more unevenness. I am going to swap it out for some thick birch ply at some point.

- there are some QA issues. Large ding in the long fence, rip/ding in the blade ange guide, crushed ends on some of the dust hoses. Bit of peeling paint on the side of the cast iron, etc.

- clamping the fence down moves the end of the fence about 6-7mm out of true with the front (using the long fence) much wiggling and grabbing the fence to stop it moving whilst clamping it is needed. Although, when it is in place and square, it is reasonably solid. I have ordered the Axminster band saw fence 'upgrade' from a supplier in the US for a fraction of the cost, so will eventually fit that anyway.

- fence doesnt exactly slide nicely across the top. Manual says lubricate the tracks etc. but even after doing that it just seems to kind of judder across the top. I have applied non-silicone grease. Wouldn't it be better if it was slightly raised above the table surface when not clamped down?

- the manual could do with some work - there are parts of it with fig/diagrams/photos and no accompanying explanation.

- the mitre fence thing and/or the t-rail it runs in could do with some work. Fence is only a close fit along the top edges, on the lower edges it is pretty slack, so you end up with play if you move it in a certain direction. Some aluminium tape might solve this. It also seems fractionally tighter at the front end of the slot.

Postive:

- cast iron top is great - nice and straight, solid.

- realtively quiet.

- mine came setup very square - blade was parallel to mitre slots and riving knife. Riping a 1m long length of spruce resulted in a variance of about 0.3mm from start to end, using digital calipers - not bad for an out of the box setup.

- seems adquate on the power front. Only ripped spruce and a oak flooring for now, but it had no problem dealing with it.

- two-point dust collection (blade guard and base) seems to work fairly well.

Overall, I recommend it. For the money, there isn't much that comes close with the features. If you are buying the MK2 they may have even sorted out the fence problems.

 

[Bigstinka]

Could you message me where you got the fence upgrade? Thanks!

 

[Bodgers]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Universal-1 ... 1546793379?

 

[spiderlane]

Hi Bodgers,

Thanks for this. I've just got a TS-200 too and am in the process of setting up, so it's useful to see some other first impressions.

Regarding the judder on the fence, I've not really looked at that yet, but in this thread -> https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/a-few-mods-to-my-ts-200-t47059.html user "Ateallthepies" added a couple of threaded delrin rods to snug the mechanism up against the rail so it's smoother when moving it. I'm not sure whether you're the "drilling holes in things under warranty" type, but I was going to try this. FWIW, I have a new Axminster bandsaw (the HB250N) and the fence was a bit juddery until I waxed all the contact surfaces on the fence bracket and the rail and it glides very nicely now (albeit that design means that the fence itself is a mm or so from the table because it has a bearing at the far end to support it, so a different design. I mention it in case it's useful)

I also waxed the table on my TS-200 which makes the work pieces slide more smoothly over the surface and hopefully will keep rust at bay.

I have a problem (which Axminster are going to take a look at for me) whereby, at the bottom of the blade travel, the dust extraction port makes contact with the bottom of the aperture in the rear panel of the casing (see pic), and in doing so, distorts the blade carrier and deflects the riving knife about 5mm to the left of the blade.

Does yours do this too? Or is the dust port clear of the edge of the casing when the blade is down at it's lowest point? The other issue that I've found is that between the bottom and the top of the blade range, it moves to the left by about 1mm - would be interested to hear whether your saw is like this too?

Cheers and all the best,
Mark

 

[olddogsleeping]

Spiderlane,

I've also been setting up my newly acquired TS200 this weekend, and have seen the same issues as you.

With mine, the dust port contact, and deflection of the riving knife only happens once the blade is below the table level, so I'm not overly concerned with this.

I hadn't noticed the sideways movement of the blade until I came to make a zero clearance insert, and then found the blade binding as I raised it through the new insert to cut the slot. For now I've just widened the insert slot to 3.5mm with a router, so it's not quite zero clearance but much better than the gaping chasm with the original insert.

 

[Mrwilson]

I very nearly bought one of these around Christmas time because of the price reductions. My first choice, the TS250, was out of stock so I'd almost settled on the 200 but wasn't sure that I wanted the smaller depth of cut.
The more I read about these and the other makes, the more I wondered what I was buying. If I had to modify the throat plate and fence, sort out the basic geometry of the table, improve or replace blades and/or other hardware, then I might as well buy a cheapy and work on that.
That led me to buying a £30 second hand Ryobi and from the descriptions here you could be talking about my saw. Out of square motor mount, twisted fence, changing blade angle from minimum to maximum depth of cut, etc, etc.
All easily sorted and I enjoyed getting it from where it was to a more reliable bit of machinery, but I would have been well peeved if it had cost me a couple of hundred quid in the first place and I couldn't use it straight out of the box.
I'm not knocking your choice of saw by any means, as I said I very nearly had one but it's not great when we have to accept these poor manufacturing attempts as the norm. Or are there thousands of spot on ones and we only hear about the dodgy few?

Shug

 

[Bodgers]

Hi Bodgers,

Thanks for this. I've just got a TS-200 too and am in the process of setting up, so it's useful to see some other first impressions.

Regarding the judder on the fence, I've not really looked at that yet, but in this thread -> https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/a-few-mods-to-my-ts-200-t47059.html user "Ateallthepies" added a couple of threaded delrin rods to snug the mechanism up against the rail

I also waxed the table on my TS-200 which makes the work pieces slide more smoothly over the surface and hopefully will keep rust at bay.


Does yours do this too? Or is the dust port clear of the edge of the casing when the blade is down at it's lowest point? The other issue that I've found is that between the bottom and the top of the blade range, it moves to the left by about 1mm - would be interested to hear whether your saw is like this too?

Cheers and all the best,
Mark

Thanks for the link - looks like an interesting mod. My upgraded fence won't come until my relative from the US brings it back in April, so I'll,have weigh up if it's worth doing that.

I haven't noticed that problem with the dust port - mine arrived with the blade set at its lowest point and I didn't notice the deflection on the riving knife as I raised it. I will go and check this tomorrow night though. I have noticed that they are directly connected though, and I was a little concerned that I was putting the whole blade/knife setup out of true as I was connecting the dust hose, as there is a fair bit of movement on it as this happens.

After doing some more test cuts today I have now decide that the blade is further out of true with the top than I thought. The test cuts I was doing were against the fence which is still not consistently true for me yet which was masking the problem. I am going to try and true that up by slacking the rails off that holds the fence clamp and moving it around a bit. Then I need to address the blade/table top alignment problem....not looking forward to that...

 

[Bodgers]

I very nearly bought one of these around Christmas time because of the price reductions. My first choice, the TS250, was out of stock so I'd almost settled on the 200 but wasn't sure that I wanted the smaller depth of cut.
The more I read about these and the other makes, the more I wondered what I was buying. If I had to modify the throat plate and fence, sort out the basic geometry of the table, improve or replace blades and/or other hardware, then I might as well buy a cheapy and work on that.
That led me to buying a £30 second hand Ryobi and from the descriptions here you could be talking about my saw. Out of square motor mount, twisted fence, changing blade angle from minimum to maximum depth of cut, etc, etc.
All easily sorted and I enjoyed getting it from where it was to a more reliable bit of machinery, but I would have been well peeved if it had cost me a couple of hundred quid in the first place and I couldn't use it straight out of the box.
I'm not knocking your choice of saw by any means, as I said I very nearly had one but it's not great when we have to accept these poor manufacturing attempts as the norm. Or are there thousands of spot on ones and we only hear about the dodgy few?

Shug

Don't want to start a 'my saw is better than your saw' thing...but when the TS200 is sorted, it potentially has several advantages over your Ryobi:

- Cast iron top
- Quieter induction motor
- Long warranty/support from Axminster (bought new)
- Very customisable

I also have not experienced any changing of alignment when changing the angle of the blade. My fence is not twisted either - it is just a little out of alignment at one end which can be sorted by bolting the guide rails on a bit straighter.

Not sure what Ryobi model you have, but the TS200 is more of a beginner's cabinet saw, whereas possibly the Ryobi is an aluminium top site saw affair.

I am pretty happy with the TS200 despite the minor alignment issues. Even if I left it as is, it is very capable of ripping lengths within 0.3 mm of accuracy, quietly and quickly, with a flat, stable, cast iron top.

Also it is worth pointing out that some people got it for low as 150 recently...

 

[j]

I've found the same issue where lowering the blade causes the dust port to hit the back of the casing and move everything over in the process.
I'd be very interested in hearing what Axminster have to say about it.
I'll check tomorrow about the blade moving sideways as you raise it.

I've aligned my blade with my mitre slot, and made my ZCI. - see my TS200 setup thread.
Aligning the fence was pretty straight forward, there's no adjustment in the actual fence to casting, but you can adjust the rail that the fence rides on by slackening the screws. You also need to set up your scale to be accurate at the same time.

I've just today re-fitted the riving knife and extended the slot in the ZCI to accomodate it.
I still need to cut down the RK and re-fit the crown guard to alow the use of sledge and groove cuts etc.
Then I may actually have to find something to make with it

 

[Rhossydd]

it's not great when we have to accept these poor manufacturing attempts as the norm. Or are there thousands of spot on ones and we only hear about the dodgy few?

The thing to consider is that the vast majority of buyers don't put their reviews on Axminster's site or post to forums.

The TS200 is a curious beast, certainly built down to a price and size, but there's little else that competes with it.
Site saws like the Ryobi you chose and other similar saws are great for what they are, but if you want a saw that's quiet running with a solid cast iron table and the option for a sliding table, there's really no other options without doubling the cost and size. The later can be a major issue in the UK where space is at a greater premium for hobbyists than other territories.

There are a couple of other considerations when judging kit by it's mentions on forums like this;
Firstly, a lot of these saws are bought by novices that don't really know what they're buying. They often expect the little TS-200 to be comparable to the big table saws they see in American videos and books, it isn't.
Secondly, people contributing for forums like this are very aspirational for the standards they expect for kit and are the sort of users that will go to the extra effort of fettling kit until it reaches the peak performance possible, then are happy to boast/share how they achieved it. You won't find that sort of peer support on many other products.

 

[j]

Secondly, people contributing for forums like this are very aspirational for the standards they expect for kit and are the sort of users that will go to the extra effort of fettling kit until it reaches the peak performance possible, then are happy to boast/share how they achieved it. You won't find that sort of peer support on many other products.

This was a big part of why I took the plunge, this and the sudden price drop

 

[spiderlane]

This was a big part of why I took the plunge, this and the sudden price drop

Me too! I've always been a tinkerer and like the challenge of making something the best it can be. I bought it fully aware of the limitations and there is a huge amount of useful info on this forum about getting the best out of it by fettling, customising, building into units etc...

I find also that this level of fussiness during setup and subsequent fettling teaches me a lot about the tool and thus I can be aware of it's limitations in use and then work around them.

Cheers,
Mark

 

[mahomo59]

What type of wax are you using on the surface? Could I use it on ujk cast iron router top? Cheers

 

[spiderlane]

I used clear Briwax as that's what I had to hand. Put it on in thin coats and seemed to work well

Cheers
Mark

 

[sploo]

What type of wax are you using on the surface? Could I use it on ujk cast iron router top? Cheers

This: http://www.axminster.co.uk/liberon-lubricating-wax

Works great on cast iron tops, jigs, melamine/laminate router table tops, old rusty vernier callipers that you've clean down etc.

 

[Bodgers]

Hi Bodgers,

Thanks for this. I've just got a TS-200 too and am in the process of setting up, so it's useful to see some other first impressions.

Regarding the judder on the fence, I've not really looked at that yet, but in this thread -> https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/a-few-mods-to-my-ts-200-t47059.html

Does yours do this too? Or is the dust port clear of the edge of the casing when the blade is down at it's lowest point? The other issue that I've found is that between the bottom and the top of the blade range, it moves to the left by about 1mm - would be interested to hear whether your saw is like this too?

Cheers and all the best,
Mark

Ok I tested the dust extraction port/body fouling thing when the blade is low in the table.

It isn't an issue - at least for me.

As I lowered the blade, I feared the worst, as you are right, the port does eventually touch the body. But this is only if you have removed the guard. With the guard off, my blade sticks out from the table top by a smidge under 1mm. So unless you are cutting an incredibly shallow rebate into a work piece, it just isn't an issue. The riving knife would get in the way anyway. I imagine the design has been put together with the implicit intention of it never to be used without the guard. So it's fair enough really.

Given my impending fence upgrade, I went for the ultra low budget option on the anti-judder fence clamp mod. I cut up two thin pieces of wood, on my bandsaw, to exactly shim up the fence clamp so that there is no wiggle room when the screw tensioner is loose. I taped these up with aluminium tape and attached it to the clamp. I have replaced the non-silicone wax on the runners with graphite lube and it now runs nicely up and down the table (except the daft table extension which it bumps over, but that needs replacing). I can supply photos if anyone is bothered.

I have now solved the problem on the fence not being in alignment (when it's tightened) by slacking off the rail bolts, shoving things about a bit, and re-tightening the bolts.

Problem now is that this has now revealed the true extent of the blade misalignment with the table, which I measure at a shocking 3mm (table end to end) using a long steel rule pushed up against the blade (and a digital gauge between the mitre slot). Manual seems to make adjusting this alignment a walk in the park, so I will give it a go tomorrow.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[sploo]

As I lowered the blade, I feared the worst, as you are right, the port does eventually touch the body. But this is only if you have removed the guard. With the guard off, my blade sticks out from the table top by a smidge under 1mm. So unless you are cutting an incredibly shallow rebate into a work piece, it just isn't an issue. The riving knife would get in the way anyway. I imagine the design has been put together with the implicit intention of it never to be used without the guard. So it's fair enough really.

Interesting. I'll have to check mine when I get a chance, as I'm planning on grinding a spare riving knife such that I could do shallow "over the blade" cuts.

The saw was delivered with the blade + knife positioned well under the table and I don't recall it having problems. Is the bit of the body the port touches just the outer metal "skin" (which could be filed down if required)?

Problem now is that this has now revealed the true extent of the blade misalignment with the table, which I measure at a shocking 3mm (table end to end) using a long steel rule pushed up against the blade (and a digital gauge between the mitre slot). Manual seems to make adjusting this alignment a walk in the park, so I will give it a go tomorrow.

3mm? Yikes. That one was a Friday afternoon job then :shock:

Hope the alignment works out OK.

Fortunately mine came sufficiently straight to the mitre slots that I couldn't detect a difference with callipers, but I'm still waiting on a delivery of a dial gauge to check if its's really square. The drilling of the holes in the table for the insert plate on the other hand... somewhat random.

 

[Bodgers]

Yes, mine was delivered with it completely lowered, but I just don't remember the dust port being jammed up against the body. Obviously it must have been.

Yes, you probably could file the metal sheeting of the body down to stop it doing this. For me, it just isn't worth it, because I plan to use it with the guard on most of the time. And when I do need it off to do a complete 'through cut', I can't imagine having to do one as shallow as 1mm or less (even if I did have a modified riving knife that allowed it).

 

[sploo]

I can't imagine having to do one as shallow as 1mm or less (even if I did have a modified riving knife that allowed it).

http://woodgears.ca/shop-tricks/tearout.html

(though by using a crosscut sled the blade is obviously much higher than 1mm, so it's maybe moot)

 

[spiderlane]

Yes, you probably could file the metal sheeting of the body down to stop it doing this. For me, it just isn't worth it, because I plan to use it with the guard on most of the time. And when I do need it off to do a complete 'through cut', I can't imagine having to do one as shallow as 1mm or less (even if I did have a modified riving knife that allowed it).

Yeah, me neither. However since I'm quite space constrained, I am planning to fit a temporary ply/mdf top on the saw and use it as a makeshift bench from time to time, so ideally I'd like the ability to remove the guard and drop the blade/riving knife just below the table surface.

Cheers
Mark