Axminster router elevator / lift

[condeesteso]

Just got one of these, looked for reviews but couldn't find one here. First impression very good. If anyone's interested I'll do some proper pics and a mini-review when I come to fit it. It's going to have a DeWalt 2kW 1/2" fitted to it. Must say the engineering looks and feels very good indeed (see pic 3).

 

[Waka]

Reviews with pic's are always good, I'd be interested to see how it compares with my Router Lift.

 

[flounder]

I have this lift with a DW625 fitted and been very pleased with it. The only issue I have experienced is when using a closed fence that blocks of the top of the table extraction, sawdust tends to fill the hole that the winding arm fits into which can be a right pain in the bum!

 

[stev]

I'd be interested to know what you think about the flatness of the insert plate. I've been testing an Axminster router table with their aluminium and phenolic insert plates and frankly I'm not impressed, the plates are not flat and the adjuster screws move with vibration in use.

I've gone back to my shop made MDF tables, they are far more reliably accurate!

 

[condeesteso]

Hi Steve - interesting point. I have an Axminster insert (gold coloured one) dropped into a bench with a 1/4" in it, and have noted the inserts are low relative to the ali plate. I looked v closely at the lift (arrived this morning) - and I can get a 2 thou under, not a 3. So say 2 1/2 thousandths. I'm pretty happy with that - obviously dead flat would be good, but this is close. (Worth noting Clifton planes quote their soles within 3 thou , i.e. +/- 1.5, or zero to +3 whatever... and this is better than that. Digressing I know, but 3 thou on a premium plane is not good enough - on a decent smoother you will tune it to cut 2 thou or a bit less, easily.)
The insert cost around £40 I recall, this lift was £175, and seriously you do get a lot of precision for the money. I won't really know til it's up and running, but it seems very well made indeed.
Investigating various materials for the table, so this may take a week or two.

And Flounder - went to take another look... see the point, and no obvious easy solution. Was considering under-table extraction but that is complex, and it won't necessarily solve the issue anyway. If I come up with something I'll let you know, if you do, V.V. please. But still like the look of it.

 

[condeesteso]

I have a plan. Remember this is for a table to take a DeWalt 2kW, using big cutters sometimes.
Just ordered a sheet of UHDPE (ultra high density polyethylene) from Directplasticsonline. It's actually the same (very close I think) as the jig making white stuff Rutlands sell, but black and comes in 1000 x 500mm sheets, called RG1000.
Plan is to face the top of table with that, and make the rest of the table with an odd collection of laminates. The sheet is 6mm thick and the insert is also 6mm, so the idea is bond the sheet to a substrate, and shim very slightly to get everything dead level (shim as the adhesive bond will be something, a few thou at least).
The other laminates I have in mind include some cement sheet (it'll have a proper name) that I got from Wickes ages ago for something else. The sheet is about 10mm thick, and I want to try it as it is a very dead, massy material.
The 'theory' I am trying is to laminate materials together which have different properties - some very stiff, some very good at absorbing vibration. I did consider getting a slab of slate engineered (following a U.S. table saw with a granite top I saw), but cost is high-ish, so I want to try this first. Sorry, the theory I mentioned: put a number of materials with different properties together, bonded by dead adhesives (Thixofix etc) under quite high pressure - so the result is stiff enough, flat and acoustically as dead as possible. The mid-frequency energy from the cutter needs a very stiff table, and that table needs to absorb vibrational energy at around 800 - 2000 Hz. This is an experiment, I remind you If a table has a resonant frequency or resonant harmonic in that range, it's going to be very loud, and rough.

Has anyone any ideas re the need to extract under a table (with particular reference to this lift, with lots of threads, gears and a chain all sitting there waiting to get dust stuck in them)??

Re bonding UHDPE, they told me it's a problem, spoke to a specialist in Sheffield, they quoted about £100 for a special epoxy and gun... tried epoxies I have, bad, then tried Thixofix and it's pretty good. This bond will be under minimal load anyway. It may not be good long-term... plasticiser migration from the UHDPE. Have to see. (I scored the UHDPE surface with an old saw blade.) Gutter sealant was also promising!

The table is a low-cost experiment - the sheet was about £35, the rest of the materials I have lying around - I may even chuck a sheet of glass in there! End thickness about 30mm, and quite heavy.

Opinions and ideas most welcome!

 

[Recky33]

sawdust tends to fill the hole that the winding arm fits into which can be a right pain in the bum!

you could turn the plate round 180 so the hole is on the infeed side, only difference I can see would be that the name on the plate would be facing the rear.

Has anyone any ideas re the need to extract under a table (with particular reference to this lift, with lots of threads, gears and a chain all sitting there waiting to get dust stuck in them)??

I have a Jessem lift with a 100mm feed extracting from under the table, the gears still get covered in dust, but never seems to affect its operation, I dont think it would work too well without extraction

Allan

 

[flounder]

sawdust tends to fill the hole that the winding arm fits into which can be a right pain in the bum!

you could turn the plate round 180 so the hole is on the infeed side, only difference I can see would be that the name on the plate would be facing the rear.

Has anyone any ideas re the need to extract under a table (with particular reference to this lift, with lots of threads, gears and a chain all sitting there waiting to get dust stuck in them)??

I have a Jessem lift with a 100mm feed extracting from under the table, the gears still get covered in dust, but never seems to affect its operation, I dont think it would work too well without extraction

Allan

Thats not a bad idea, although thinking about it, one possible downside could be that the fence then covers up the hole a lot of the time meaning you cant then adjust the bit up without moving the fence.

 

[condeesteso]

Re extraction - I intended to have a 100mm take-off on the fence anyway, but to make something that does both under and over is tricky indeed given the need for the fence to move. I had 100mm fence extraction on my last table and it was good, but I am concerned about the mechanics in this lift getting gummed up with dust. Also given the open structure of the lift underneath, I can't think of a way of focussing the airflow on the underside. With extraction through the fence you can get some serious air velocity over the cutting area which seems effective - but I am struggling working out a decent way to incorporate under-table as well. Might give Axminster a call re this, but any thoughts welcome please.

 

[woodbloke]

I saw one of these at YOKB 1 last year and was also very impressed with the quality of the engineering. I was going to get one as well, but as I've got one of the Trend T11 routers that lift through the table, spending money on a router lift like this t'weren't really necessary...excellent bit of kit though - Rob

 

[greggy]

mine is just as good, if not better and cheaper.

 

[condeesteso]

Hi Greggy - there has been a little tension in the air on this forum over the past 24 hrs, so I want to tread really carefully when I tell you this:

I prefer the colour of yours, but it is quite 'Barnsley' isn''t it.

(calm down, born 'n' bred Doncaster lad 'ere)

 

[greggy]

as far as i am concerned it dont matter if its pink with yellow dots on. as long as it works. lol.

 

[condeesteso]

update on table. Got all the laminates I want now, just need a big tin of Thixofix.
From top down, it will be:
- 6mm UHDPE (black) from directplasticsonline
- 12mm mdf (to give enough combined depth to drop the 3/4" track (Rutlands) into, which is about 13mm deep. managed to get a four length pack of T-track for about £34, less their 15% deal, so massively cheaper than buying single lengths.
- 12mm cement sheet (the stuff sold to line walls before tiling)
- 3mm hardboard
- 12mm cement sheet
- 3mm white faced hardboard, white down

So 46 - 50mm altogether. Need the adhesive, and a flat surface 750 x 450, paving slabs to apply pressure. Will bond laminates one at a time, so I can check each layer is good.
The UHDPE will overhang about 12mm so I can edge with timber (ash no doubt, have a bit lying around).
Soon as I can get that done, will review the Axminster lift. Am aiming to get this done before I need to start on the workbench again, which awaits a tail-vice.
This top is a real experiment... fingers crossed it is quiet (dead), very stiff and solid. The UHDPE feels very promising for the work-surface.

 

[Yetty]

Re Laminated top:
I wonder if the top will remain as flat as you seek, as temperature changes e.g. like a bi-metalic strip!
A solution may be to balance the laminations equally around the centre core layer, just like veneering or in plywoods
i.e. material type A , type B, then type A.

Re Dust free lift:
I’d be tempted investigate enclosing the lift and applying a positive air pressure, with a lots of negative pressure at the fence.
(perhaps some of the exhaust outlet from the vacuum for source of +ve, or a fan fixed to the side of the enclosure).
Should also keep router electrics, variable speed control and bearing clear of dust.

keep us updated!

 

[Yetty]

perhaps some of the exhaust outlet from the vacuum for source

A built-in fan might be better than the vac exhaust ....the vac exhaust will add to temperature of both router and table underside!

 

[condeesteso]

Hi Yetty - you may be on my rather odd wavelength I suspect almost everyone else would think I'm a bit bonkers on this one.
re bi-metal strip - am close as the core is 3mm hardboard, with cement sheet equal each side, then 3mm hardboard again each face. If that is the sandwich, then it's just the 6mm UHDPE on top. Really don't know how it will behave so have to see. was planning putting a very small convex on the top, I mean a few thou.
fancy a blow into underside - good idea, as the router impeller is already blowing out and up (to cutter) anyway. Needs to be easily removable to get to speed control and collet lock maybe.
What I may do is get a really good venturi suck over cutter through the fence (assisted by router exhaust of course, and I'm after air velocity, not volume so much))... see how that works. then go the next stage of underside air management if / as necessary .
Just knocked up the base today, nice n solid. Am away a few days but the next bit is laminating the top.
Will certainly keep you posted... the things we do for fun

 

[condeesteso]

Update. Slow, but not sure - that's the report. All top laminates cut, and the UHDPE cut for the Axminster lift. Slow and messy, but got there. The base is ash (have a bit in stock) lap joints but v stiff, pleased with the base.
Top is a bit saggy but it will be until it's all bonded together... still waiting for a pot of Thixofix due tomorrow (no good, working tomorrow).
I am astonished how hard it is to find Thixofix (even Screwfix don't do it) - it is by far the best contact adhesive I have ever found. No stringing, easy to apply and spread, sticks just as well.
The cement sheet - it's obviously a blade-killer - so I used an old hack-saw, then discovered a length of retired 1" bandsaw blade cruised through it. Old surform to final the edges. Have inset them 10mm so I can insert a wood slip... something to screw an edge banding to.
Top is, from top: 6mm UHDPE; 9mm MDF (need those together to drop the track into); 10mm cement; 3mm hardboard, 10mm cement, 3mm faced hardboard. Then steels under to stiffen more.
Working the UHDPE is a dream - planes, chisels even my spokeshave - all good and it doesn't damage edges at all.
Put 2 steel cross-members on the table base, just as a stiffness precaution. When I glue the top I plan to make a few thou of convex-ness into the top.

The AXMINSTER LIFT: too early yet generally. Will do a proper review soon as, but so far everything really good. The instructions are in real English, the template is bang-on leaving just 2mm all round to clear the main chassis. Still think it is brilliantly made. Have a plan to test the lift mechanism to 1 thousand of an inch and I am confident I will be able to adjust to that accuracy, but we'll see. More later. Give me glue, now.

 

[condeesteso]

Update - had a busy week working, so delayed. But the top is assembled, and the lift fits nice and tightly, and flush. need to build a fence now. Combination of ali extrusion angle, mdf etc, and a tumble dryer 90 degree adaptor from rectangular to round - i'll get a pic, it's easier! - basically the 100mm hose fits snugly over the round, the square goes into the back of the fence. I am aiming for a smooth channel for airflow through the fence in order to get good air velocity and minimal turbulence. This way I hope to avoid trying under-table extraction as that will get complex.
Re the electronic depth, it has the facility to mound a digital depth read-out. I don't plan to use one, so removed the mounts. then decided to put them back on anyway. Just need to cut a small recess in the aperture to clear the top mount, but it's insignificant to strength etc.
Very close to actually trying the lift, will report back.

 

[condeesteso]

back again! - it's finished, but for a few small tweaks.
Built a fence using aluminium extrusion, some 9mm mdf, and a strip of white UHDPE (from Rutlands)

The extraction is currently designed for my macallister vac, with power take-off. the input to the vac is about 35mm, and power is through the Macallister take-off - working absolutely fine.

The underside just shows the router mounted, but I used the old rise screw to lock the chassis firmly (2 nuts either side, just to the left in pic).

The Axminster lift is really very good indeed. Overall, a really precise piece of engineering. Big solid casting for the carriage that takes the router. The chain drive has zero play, and all components seem very high quality. Note there is slack between the hex drive and the adjustment, but you just take up the obvious slack and from there even the tiniest movement adjusts cutter height. I can definitely make .001" adjustments, with some accuracy.
NOTE: the aperture for the hex drive to lift/lower is rather close to the line of the fence in normal use. That means to retain fence setting, the disc that shows graduations will not fall flush to the table (fence in the way). I can live with that, as it is still easy to estimate adjustments around the 1 - 2 thou order, which is close enough! If there were no tech reason not to, it would be good if the adjustment aperture was just about where the Axminster logo is.
NOTE 2: Not specifically a criticism, but some of the bolts were over-torqued. In particular the 4 that fix the mounting plate took a severe effort to unlock. Given that the first thing you need to do is unlock those to mount your router, they are scarily tight. I do think production should back off the torque settings a good way (same is true of the digital read-out brackets, way overtight.)
NOTE 3: The anodised surface is going to abrade where the rise-fall gauge disc sits on the top plate (see pic) - not a worry, just a slight cosmetic shame.

NOTE 4: the bayonet insert unlocks clockwise, which is counter-intuitive. But fine once you know that, or read the instructions. Odd though. But like everything else on this table, the fit of the removal tool is perfect. Serious precision all over.

My home-made extract is using 40mm plumbing pvc, welded with solvent. The final extract is a reducer to 32mm, opened out to 35mm to fit the vac nozzle.

I spent some time 'gas-flowing' the fence / extract connection - so far in testing the chip extract is excellent, with no chips at all below the table. I do plan to make a bigger fence also, with a 100mm extract, for larger cutters. But I do tend to take cuts in stages anyway. But I am happy it is working very well, as under-table extraction is full of problems and also technically irrational. I mean that the router itself exhausts upward to the cutter, and the chips are generated above the table. Sucking the chips down through the table aperture isn't sensible.

The Axminster lift - SUMMARY so far. Really very good. Outstandingly well made, virtually flawless from a tech point-of-view. My observations above are quite minor. I cannot compare it with the others though they are all significantly more expensive, and I can't imagine what they could do that this cannot. As an alternative to a simple insert plate, I recommend this lift very highly for a quite modest extra cost. It is a revelation after having to reach under and adjust the old depth screw. And it is more precise than you could reasonably need.
The table: It was a mission building that - cement sheet, UHDPE, mdf , steel under etc. It does work very well, it is really quiet and the finish on a piece of ash as a test, was actually glossy (like a very good hand-plane). Having just finished it, and feeling jaded... I would say that mixing materials to get stiffness + mass + deadness is good, very good. But there may be easier ways. Ask me again in a few weeks when the memory of making it has faded a bit.

Off to get on making my workbench now. Such heaven to use saws, planes, chisels... after working mdf, steel, aluminium. I know mdf is very useful, but how much do I hate it...?