Agent_zed
Established Member
not a problem if you don't sell your car every 3 years, which is a bad practice anyway.
Are EV's good value? Apparently not!
- Thread starter Jester129
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Terrytpot
Established Member
“now that we do have all of those safety features it’s used as an excuse to penalise you as the vehicle will be more expensive to repair in the accident that it’s less likely to be involved in!”
Before anyone else shoots this bit down, I appreciate that the supply chain for ev’s isn’t as established as that for ice vehicles and that all vehicles regardless of propulsion method employed have been victims of the “Insurance industry” using the post Covid “shortages” as an opportunity for a golden period with the astronomical policy inflation’s they’ve implemented.
Before anyone else shoots this bit down, I appreciate that the supply chain for ev’s isn’t as established as that for ice vehicles and that all vehicles regardless of propulsion method employed have been victims of the “Insurance industry” using the post Covid “shortages” as an opportunity for a golden period with the astronomical policy inflation’s they’ve implemented.
Agent_zed
Established Member
If the government didn't get involved you wouldn't have a CAT on your car. Good you may say except they are pretty much the only reason manufacturers had to fit fuel injection systems as carbs are almost impossible to make work with a CAT. So you now save a huge amount in fuel, have cleaner emmissions and a more responsive car.
If the government didn't get involved you wouldn't have safety standards so you would be significantly worse in a crash. Sure Volvo marketed themselves as the safe car back in the day, but did everyone buy a volvo?
Unless you force people to do things they will take the path of least resistance and maximum profit.
Agent_zed
Established Member
the main issue at the moment imo is that batteries are not designed to be easily swapped. Sorry about banging on about the renault twizy but as an example with this car you rent the battery (although this might have changed now, I think you can buy it). So as soon as the battery is failing it gets swapped out.
It would make sense to me for manufacturers to install a port to take an emergency battery that people like the AA can carry just to get you to the next charging point. In most cases it would only need to get you 5-10miles.
Like all things manufacturers want to tie you into their products. If the world was a sensible place you'd have modular batteries that could be used across all cars.
It would make sense to me for manufacturers to install a port to take an emergency battery that people like the AA can carry just to get you to the next charging point. In most cases it would only need to get you 5-10miles.
Like all things manufacturers want to tie you into their products. If the world was a sensible place you'd have modular batteries that could be used across all cars.
Skydivermel
Established Member
We had a Hyundai Kona EV for three years. I found out that if an EV is in an accident the insurance company will write it off as the battery may be unstable. I've since got rid of the Kona and gone back to a diesel jag.
My missus got shunted in our VW e-up last year - the shunter's insurers paid to have it fixed, so I suspect it depends greatly on the amount of damage done, just as with an ICE car.
selectortone
Still waking up not dead in the morning
One of Yorkshire's greatest achievements.
And the more there are the more viable (profitable) recycling gets
Every time I say it, I say it with a Yorkshire accent!
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
Insurance companies seem to be very reluctant to take risks, which is strange, as that's their raison d'etre. My stepdaughter's car was bumped, in a car park, no visible damage to either bumper or bumpee, yet the child seat(that wasn't occupied at the time) was written off. It makes you wonder how that child seat would fare in a real crash, if it can't survive a gentle tap. I reckon it has experienced 10 times the G force going through airport baggage handling.
Maybe it's been said already, but I just want to respond to the comments about why manufacturers targeted premium products (fast, posh cars) before the mainstream (shopping cars). That's normal practice, and Elon Musk explained it in describing Tesla's product plan - you create demand by proving that the new tech (EVs) can be desirable, satisfy that demand where your profit margin is highest (luxury cars) and pump your profits into building out the mainstream pipeline where the profit margin has to be small. In the case of Tesla, they also pumped a ton of money and influence into the supercharger network because the infra was lacking.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
There are ~30m ICE cars registered in the UK, 65% of which are more than 5 years old.
There are ~1m EV cars registered in the UK, nearly all of which are less than 5 years old.
That ICE repairs and spares infrastructure is currently far better than EV is hardly surprising. In 10 years time the situation will reverse - closing and failing ICE infrastructure as sales of new decline, and a more buoyant mature EV support industry.
Fossil fuels are inherently polluting, limited in supply, and vulnerable - conflict, global market prices etc. As an increasingly viable alternative exists it would be irresponsible not to react accordingly.
That it requires major cost upgrades to distribution and generation infrastructure is not a reason to continue with the fossil fuel dead end. The cost burden will fall on all of us, whether through extra tax or larger energy bills.
IMHO implementing laws to encourage transition to EV (+ home heating) is government doing what they are supposed to - ensure the stable and secure future well being of its citizens.
If this runs counter to a public vote (election) rejecting transition in favour of current consumption, is it a denial of democratic process to impose the change anyway. Again an opinion - responsible leadership sometimes requires the difficult and unpopular.
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
Yep. There are always daft rules created. Just like for every sensible H&S reg that helps to protect employees, it's quite likely there will be another that's completely pointless and invented for no useful reason.
Doesn't change the fact that the evidence is overwhelming that large corporations will cut any corners they can in order to increase profit, and generally only government level regulation keeps them in check.
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
Is the need for more pylons a result of EVs though? There's plenty of capacity on the grid; the issue is when that capacity is available; hence the ideas of "smart" chargers and the use of EVs as large battery stores.
Agree completely re fuel duty; at some point the government will have to find alternative sources to cover the lost revenue from falling petrol and diesel sales - that's an inevitability.
That is true but not for everywhere, regions that were rural / agricultural never had a high demand for energy but if those areas end up with EV's and charging requirements then they now need more power. It is a problem that will grow exponentially as if many of these places increase there demand then it goes back up the supply via many substations that each will need replacing including cables and overheads which is a huge engineering project as each step upstream to the national grid will require an even larger increase in supply capacity that will require larger substations and will cost more. This problem has been made worse by the huge numbers of new builds that have been thrown up everywhere which has already pushed the grid closer to capacity in some areas, for example you cannot just throw an extra 63, 000 new sheds up in Milton keynes and expect the grid to cope, and if only 25% of them had EV's on charge overnight that would cause supply issues.
PhilTilson
Established Member
I am not going to add to this discussion, except to say that the topic of electric vehicles seems to elicit more codswallop than almost any other at the moment. Highly questionable 'facts' gleaned from the internet are cited as solid truth and the level of misunderstanding is frightening. The one irrefutable fact from this thread, and the many others on the topic, is that people who actually own and drive electric cars are almost universally in favour of them - in many cases one would say besotted! Virtually all the negative 'vibes' (and the codswallop) come from people who don't actually own or drive an EV and thus know little what they are talking about!
I couldn't agree more, as an EV owner for over 3 years I've given up trying to tell people on here of the benefits of EV ownership, go ahead and spend your hard earned money on fossil derived products I couldn't care less.
And as for the children working down the mines, if you were to ask them about it they would probably be happy to have a job and earning money for their families. The same can be said of the sweatshops that produces the clothes that you're wearing right now, it's their only income and they're grateful for the opportunity to be able to work.
The sad thing is we're doomed regardless as the ice shelves are melting faster than ever, sea levels and temperature are rising and more than half of the global population have their heads in the sand.
This government is just about to allow the use of pesticides which will probably wipe out the bee population, without bee's to pollinate crops will render the country unable to support its over populated inhabitants which will result in trying to import food from overseas assuming they have enough to sell.
Ocean pollution is not just about the fish dieing off that will reduce the food on our tables but the food we have caught to eat will be contaminated with the rubbish we're feeding the ocean with.
I'm glad I'm a grumpy old git...... but it breaks my heart to see the loss of endangered species that are becoming extinct because of "man's" greed.
The planet will be fine but life on this planet will not.
So enjoy it while you can and apologize to the generation that has to try and live through the legacy we leave them.
My whole house and EV are powered by solar, I flush my toilet with rainwater. Every little helps, what are you doing?
artie
Sawdust manufacturer.
How about filling us in on your experience in more detail then?
Threse are more likely people that just fit the requirements of an EV, have never had any real interest in cars and have never taken an interest in what is under the bonnet. I have nothing against EV's, the concept of using electic motors for traction is great as they are all round much cheaper and more efficient than an ICE but I do not want the current offerings, they will evolve and there will be better design regarding the batteries and there changeability. Rather than the waiting time to charge it would be easier to just swap them out so no hanging around and the batteries would have no impact on the resale value, plus the battery packs could be charged at the optimum charge to give longer lifespan rather than hard and fast because there is no rush. At this moment in time the best solution is the hybrid if you do high mileage because you don't have to waste time charging, you know you can get there and back.
What a lot of people are not seeing is the huge job loses that are going to happen as the ICE is phased out, the cost of diesel will rise as demand falls because it will be sometime before everything can become electric, just think of a tractor pulling a 16 furrow plough for 12 hours . Then have we really got alternative products to replace all those reliant on petrochemicals, plastic's, asphalt, 60% of the content of tyres, industrial coatings and electronic components with many more so there is a much bigger picture than just all buying an EV. What use is an EV if the tyres are no good or the lubricants not as good because there are no petrochemicals because there are not many refineries operating. I suppose it will be good overall because the military will have to go back in time as well, electric tanks, planes and ships do not seem very viable at the moment !
Agent_zed
Established Member
This is going to happen regardless. Even if we take the climate change and pollution arguements out of the equation - Oil is finite! it is running out. Maybe not today or tomorrow but the less there is the more it will cost. No ifs, no buts, no coconuts. We can't grow more fossil fuels (well unless you wait a couple of million years).
This, imo, is why countries like Saudi Arabia are desparately trying to switch to tourism. They know the oil is running out and when it does they will have nothing but sand to sell. Governments know the oil isn't going to last forever or they wouldn't be pushing the green tech. This will only increase as oil decreases. Why build an oil powerstation when you know in 20years time oil will be even harder and more expensive to get.
Even if there is 40yrs worth left, the closer it gets to 0 the harder it will be to extract and some countries won't want to export and leave themselves dry.
Sure it sounds very mad max but the oil is not coming back. it will run out!
