any tips on sharpening shoulder plane blades?

[SlowSteve]

Hi,

Is there a "done thing" when it comes to sharpening shoulder plane blades? As far as I can tell, I need to keep the two edges at precisely 90 degrees to get the best use out of it - this seems to add a new layer of complexity.

I am pretty awful at hand sharpening, so would prefer a jig of some sort. Thats easy for the main blade, but will wreck the shoulder blade - so do I sharpen the main blade first with a jig and then just do my best with the shoulder?

Also - as the shoulder needs to sit dead onto the haunch of the plane, there is going to be a point where the shoulders are sharpened to a point where they don't contact the wood. So.... do I need to think about shoulder plane blades as something that I need to replace every few years of sharpening?

 

[Racers]

Main blade-Shoulder-blade?, do you mean blade and knicker that scores the cross grain, what make of shoulder plane are you talking about?

Pete

 

[David C]

Steve,

I would recommend a simple honing guide. The narrow section of some blades can cause problems. An old red Record guide would be best or perhaps an old type 1 Veritas.

Squareness is controlled by finger pressure, or to be more exact force. One finger on each side. Even force keeps squareness the same. If you double force on one side and halve it on the other, the high force side will get shorter with each stroke, so constant checking required.

The side edges are left alone. On the cutting side, blade should stick out a fraction. I sheet of paper say.

David

 

[AndyT]

The purpose of the bevels on the sides is to allow the blade to fit down inside the plane. It needs to be twisted to get it in and the bevels allow a few extra degrees of twist.
They should not be sharpened.

 

[D_W]

The best guide for a shoulder plane blade is how it's cutting.

You may have no luck sharpening other things freehand, but things like shoulder planes and skews are a perfect invitation for it if you can grind accurately and not remove the whole edge.

The lateral cut will tell you where the iron is cutting too deep or not deep enough (i.e., if it cuts heavy on the left, then when you hone, you bias pressure there). If it's cutting well, then you don't bias pressure either way.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I hollow grind and freehand. The hollow does make freehand sharpening pretty easy. The alternative is the Veritas Mk II guide with the small blade holder. That is the best guide on the market for this particular task.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Alder]

Good day Derek,
You refer to the Veritas Mark!! with small blade holder in your post, are you speaking from experience? I have the honing guide with which I am very satisfied and I am wondering if it would be worth purchasing the small blade holder.
regards,
Russell.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Hi Russell

Yes, I speak from experience. I purchased the small blade holder, partly as I was curious, and partly for very small chisels (which can be tricky to hone freehand). I already had the MkII (tested it for Lee Valley at the preproduction stage). The new small blade accessory is really excellent, and will suit narrow blades to a "t". Use the straight (not cambered) wheel on it for extra stability. This is where is scores over other guides, such as the Eclipse and Lie Nielsen (which I also have ... yes, don't go there ). Both those guides are excellent for plane blades, but the narrow wheel, which is an advantage when honing cambers on plane blades, does not offer the stability of the wide wheel on the Mk II.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[David C]

Derek,
I am of the opposite view !!

The problem with the wide straight roller is that the blade must be jigged perfectly, or it will not come out square.

The whole point of narrow or cambered rollers is that they leave the operator in control of squareness, with a finger on either edge.

David

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

David, to a point I agree with you. However, when the blades are 1/4" and less, they are more difficult to control. I freehand these sizes on a hollow grind, so I have the hand control needed. You have done this for umpteen years on an Eclipse. But I seen so many screw it up in the classes I have run. A wide blade offers much stability for narrow blades. A narrow wheel offers more control, but not stability.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[bugbear]

David, to a point I agree with you. However, when the blades are 1/4" and less, they are more difficult to control. I freehand these sizes on a hollow grind, so I have the hand control needed. You have done this for umpteen years on an Eclipse. But I seen so many screw it up in the classes I have run. A wide blade offers much stability for narrow blades. A narrow wheel offers more control, but not stability.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Agreed - you don't want the blade vying with the jig as to who's in control; As David points out, a wide blade in a jig with a wide roller MUST be fitted perfectly (and the Veritas II has features to help this).

So - wide blade, narrow roller, narrow blade, wide roller is the rule.

In practise, (and with practise) I can normally use the Eclipse #36 in both roles, by varying how firmly I engage the (flat, narrow) roller on the surface.

But I have other jigs.

I suspect the OP is sharpening the right hand edge of the blade, so that the plane cuts on its right hand side, as well as the sole.

BugBear

 

[Alder]

Thank you Derek.
As further background i purchased a Record 44 plough plan second hand some time ago and it is the blades for this that i want to sharpen. i believe the angle to be 35 degrees.
Regards,
Russell.

 

[David C]

It is interesting how a problem will generate two opposing solutions.

Both having their pros and cons.

David

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

David, I do not see the different views as conflicting. It comes down to experience, which you have too much of!

I agree that a narrow wheel is desirable insofar as it can be steered. That's why I have the LN guide - to use on BU plane blades, where angle is important, as is camber, and both are added via a secondary microbevel. I cannot freehand that.

I also have the Veritas, and I find this better than the LN on narrow blades. Both are side-clamping, which should aid in maintaining a square edge, but the extra stability of the Veritas wider wheel means that it will prevent it from rocking side-to-side. The Veritas (set up with the wide wheel) is also ideal for beginners as it is a no-brainer jig. It takes all the risk out of sharpening a square edge. Now that is an undesirable feature for an experienced user, who is capable of exerting control over a guide with less stability (due to a narrow wheel).

LN - honing a BU blade ...

Veritas - just managing a 1/4" RI mortice chisel ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[David C]

Derek,

I think I had my large shoulder plane blade in mind when answering.

For very narrow chisels I do like the Richard Kell guide with the big wheels.

This gets them perfectly square with no force fiddling!

Have not got the Veritas side clamping rig yet.

David

 

[bridger]

I both grind and hone freehand. I keep a small square at hand and check frequently. Works fine, and no fussing with jigs.

 

[David C]

The Kell guide requires no fussing with a square ...........................

David

 

[bugbear]

Ah the joys or loaded language.

I don't fuss with a jig, I use a jig.

Sometimes I just flail around at random, freehand.



BugBear

 

[David C]

Neither do I....

David

 

[mouppe]

I do use the new narrow blade holder from veritas to sharpen my shoulder plane blade. I have to agree with Derek in that it excels at this task. I used to sharpen it freehand but now I use the jig.

To set the blade, I place the plane on its side on a flat surface, push down on the side of the blade and lightly tighten the knob. Now you can advance or retract the blade as you wish before firming up the lever cap. I use David C's tip of marking the lever cap knob.