Any plumbers is the house?

[BrianD]

I have purchased a CT75 Salamander pump for my shower. I have a few questions because my airing cupboard is crowded.
I will be installing below the hot water cyl. (gravity fed from upstairs tank). The tee-off from cyl has valve connected to shower inlet. I want to disconnect at valve and then connect to pump and return to shower inlet.

I can use copper but it becomes complicated. Can I use PEX for cyl to pump and pump to shower inlet port? Something like FloPlast PE-X Barrier Pipe 25m x 15mm from screwfix.

It is flexible and I can route more easily. Is this OK?
Can it take the water pressure of pump at 2 bar?
The pump seems to have press fit AV pipes - will the PE-X work?

 

[jasonB]

Where does the hot feed to the shower come out of the cylinder? really you want a dedicated flange otherwise you risk sucking in air. This can also affect the warrante

The only down side to push fit is that the pipe inserts will reduce the bore to approx 10mm for each fitting you use all of which adds upto flow restrictions. Add to this that the pipe has a smaller bore than 15mm (OD) copper. Ideally feed from cylinder to pump in 22, reduce to 15mm just before flexi pipe. Same with feed to shower, step upto 22 ASAp and reduce back to 15mm at mixer if it needs to come down. Also run the cold feed from tank in 22mm.

Its OK for the pressure

With the correct inserts and a properly cut pipe end the push fit on the flexis will be OK

 

[BrianD]

Thanks JasonB
I was thinking of changing my stopcock to 20/15 (Comap Brass Poly Stop Cock 15mm x 20mm form screwfix) by removing the existing (for hot and cold). Then coupled up the PEX to pump with olive at stopcock and pressfit at pump.
Then fit pressfit from AV pump outlet back to shower inlet using adapter for PEX and 15mm pipe (for both Hot and Cold)

What do you think?

IT will be easy to then rout pipe to pump (below the cyl.)

BTW the hot water pipe tee is at top of hot water cyl. This should be OK?

 

[Night Train]

You will require a Salamander S Flange in the top of your tank. It picks up water from below the top of the tank where air collects.

I had to fit one of these for a client as part of the bathroom refurb with a power shower.

Beware, the pump is incredibly noisy. A bit like having a small truck engine in your airing cupboard.

 

[jasonB]

whats the code of that stopcock? sounds like its 15mm copper to 20mm MDPE which is not what you want. my preference would be SF No 21289 or 29086 but these have a finer thread than most compression firings so the old nut & olice will need to come off.

Any chance of a picture of the pipework at the top of your cylinder and also how far from cyl to shower.

Jason

 

[BrianD]

It is on the other side of the wallto the cylinder. In fact the to "valve"(sideport) at the top of the cylinder is almost level with the inlet port of the mixer. A fraction lower so it is downstream as it were.

As the h/w stopcock is leaking thenI thought replace ho/cold stopcock with 22/15 stopcocks. That way I can connect the PEX pipe from stopcock to pump.

I do not think I need a Salamander S Flange as the top of my cyl feeds directly upstairs to upper bathroom. It actually curves off higher that the loewer branch (where Iam connecting) and the tees to the upper b/room pipe and lower b/room basin. There is a distance of 3" between them. Does this make sense? Or do you think I still need a change?

 

[jasonB]

If its only on the other side of the wall then the losses through plastic pipe will be minimal so OK to go with plastic.

Yes a 22x15 will be OK not a 20x15 as you said earlier, though the valves I linked to will give better flow.

There are a couple of issues with feeding from the pipework you have

1. risk of air bubbles from the heating water entering the feed pipe and affecting both the pump switching and causing cavitation due to air in the impeller housing.

2. Where the cold tank is not high enough above the cylinder the pump can draw air back down the expansion pipe, can also happen if the cold feed to the cyl is restricted. You really want a 28mm downfeed if you also have another bathroom upstairs.

3. If someone else in the house draws off hot to say an upstairs bath, this can affect the hot supply to the pump/shower.

4. You may have warantee problems

The easiest option to save altering all the pipework to the other bathrooms etc would be to fit an essex flange to the side of the cylinder.

Jason

 

[BrianD]

Jason thanks for the info.

Would http://www.toolstation.com/images/libra ... /39751.jpg this item do it? As stated I have to change the gate valves.

I had a look at the Essex valve as stated. Maybe I do not understand it but it seems that it is fitted to the side of the tank, this would mean I would have to drill a hole thru the side and fit the flange. If I had to then how would I get the nut thru the hole and tighten it from the inside. Showing my ignorance here but it is not making total sense.

 

[BrianD]

Jason thanks for the info.

Would http://www.toolstation.com/images/libra ... /39751.jpg this item do it? As stated I have to change the gate valves. What is the alternative?

I had a look at the Essex valve as stated. Maybe I do not understand it but it seems that it is fitted to the side of the tank, this would mean I would have to drill a hole thru the side and fit the flange. If I had to then how would I get the nut thru the hole and tighten it from the inside. Showing my ignorance here but it is not making total sense.

 

[jasonB]

It would do the job but stopcocks are really for mains pressure where the pressure of the water will actually hold the washer down onto its seat, thats why thay have a direction arrow on them. you would be better off with the valves I linked to or a gate valve such as Screwfix No 16874. You can either use a 22 to 15 reducer in your chosen make of push fit pipe or buy a "reducing set" from a plumbers merchant which replaces the 22mm olive and allows 15mm pipe to fit into a 22mm compression fitting.

Essex flanges are designed to be fitted from the outside only, you just need a suitable sized holesaw and a file and a bit of string comes in handy.

Jason

 

[BrianD]

Jason,
I have gone with the Peglar valves as advised - ball type. And a JG Speedfit Straight Reducers 22x15 SF 18873 for the PEX pipes. I think that will do it. Is this OK?

Also, using JG Speedfit Straight Coupling SF 28263 to connect copper and PEX at shower point. Should work I think? Is this the right fitting?

If all OK, I have some plumbing to do.

Also apologies for erratic but am also squeezing in other things. House falling down methinks!!

Thx

 

[jasonB]

Sounds OK

Don't forget you want inserts for the pipe and they should be cut with shears not a hacksaw as the rough edge can damage the O rings that seal the fittings

Jason

 

[BrianD]

Thanks JasonB,

Fitted PEX pipes, valves and pump and Magic! hot power shower! javascript:emoticon(':shock:')

Appreciated.

I have routed the PEX pipes (very stiff) - do they settle down? Hopefully they do as I do not want to kink them - is there a min radius that can be routed over?

 

[RogerS]

Brian, if they are the white pipes from Speedfit then the answer is no in my experience which is why I use the grey stuff.

 

[jasonB]

Yes there is a min radius, you can get things that clip over the pipe and stop it collapsing, like Rog I us ethe grey John Guest stuff

Jason

 

[BrianD]

Weel, it is all too late now, I klove my power shower! Next time the grey stuff not the white!

Thanks JAson.