another scrubber

[Jacob]

Picked up a £30 ebay box of old tools Monday. Little old scrubber! Opposite end of the spectrum from the posh steel one in the other thread.
Seems to be home-made of oak, or elm, which could mean chestnut.
Crudely cambered blade with a bit of a back bevel.

Here it is doing what it does best namely scrubbing an old piece of timber. Scrubs are surprisingly easy to use and you can remove a lot of stuff very quickly.

PS Maybe just the handle is home-made as it looks fairly kosher otherwise

 

[G S Haydon]

In comparisson to the ploughs it's an ugly devil, when I look at it I think of Bauldrick. Effective though.

 

[baldpate]

The blade looks quite wide, so perhaps it started out in life as a smoother before falling on hard times - maybe originally with one of those asymmetrical 'horns' for a handle?

 

[Jacob]

The blade looks quite wide, so perhaps it started out in life as a smoother before falling on hard times - maybe originally with one of those asymmetrical 'horns' for a handle?

The handle is shaped asymmetrically - can't see it in the photo. The width is OK depending on what you want to do with it - so in my photo it is taking wide shallow cuts which is fine - scrubbing off a scruffy surface.
Deeper cuts would want a sharper camber and would be narrower so the same plane would do, but it'd be a bit of a waste sharpening the outer edges which would never get used. Horses for courses.

 

[bugbear]

That's an odd little tool. I think it may be homemade, but I'm not at all sure.

Some aspects appear very nicely done (the blade seating, and wedge), but the proportions are unusual, and the overall shaping more rectilinear (and hence uncomfortable) than I'd expect for a factory job.

It's certainly not a "full on" scrub, too high and wide for that, more of a scrubby jack (as it stands now, but of course any plane can have it's blade cambered a bit).

Finally, the timber doesn't look like any of the usual factory choices - the range was quite narrow; beech, cormier, hornbeam.

So - on balance - I'd go with homemade.

(compare a factory job; http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.a ... ,230,41182)

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

Pretty orthodox "Bismarck" plane really, and not uncomfortable. There isn't such a thing as a "full on" scrub plane it's more generic, with a variety of names (and possible end uses).
Judging by the other tools the original owner would have been capable of producing top quality stuff so he could have made this one, but ran out of wood for the handle and used a bit of mahogany. Marples blade, but almost certainly original as to get through a whole blade would also mean signs of severe wear and repairs around the mouth - which he has done on another jack in the collection.

 

[AndyT]

My guess is that it used to be a 14 or 17 inch jack plane, commercially made. Hence the neat throat and wedge and full width blade. It was converted by shortening, cutting the platform at the front, and fixing in a front handle from non-matching wood. Does that sound plausible?

 

[Jacob]

Yes except for the unusual choice of wood and the fact that the mouth isn't worn - you'd expect a sawn-off plane to have been abandoned as only suitable for a wide mouthed scrubber*. We'll never know!

* sounds like my ex wife :shock:

 

[Jacob]

Had another look.
There are several more "home made" tools in this collection, made from odds and ends - chestnut (?), mahogany and something else. They are all very well made by someone who knew what he was doing.
I bought them in Leicester. Many of the other factory made ones are marked "Geo Rusby Kaye, Leicester".
I reckon my man (J.T. Nixon) made the "home made" ones for himself with bits from the scrap box, whilst working for Geo Rusby Kaye as a tool maker, which would account for the quality.
Just a guess, but the quality and detail is just that bit better than you would expect from a non tool maker, however competent otherwise, and the other details fit.

 

[Billy Flitch]

Don`t want to upset anyone here but you can put a camber on a plane iron and call the plane anything you want, or do what ever you want with it but that wont make it a scrub plane. The scrub plane AKA Bismark plane is a definite plane type its roots are in Germany where it is known as a "Schrupp hobel" the body of the plane is 1 3/4" to 1 1/2" wide and the Iron 1" 0r 1 1/4" wide.

The method on how it is used is called Zwerchens and means across, or from the side on, which means to remove the waist from the side. The word Zwerchens is not used in every day modern German but is professional terminology showing just how old the practice of using the "Schrupp Hobel"is. Billy.

 

[Jacob]

Depends who you read. If it's adapted to "scrub" then it's a scrub plane as far as I'm concerned!
If you want to make a scrub plane but find you only have an 1 3/4 blade (like this one) then it's still a scrub plane (but a bit on the wide side!). There is no British Standard and the meaning is in the usage.
No knowing what the bloke who made it called it - most likely a "roughing out" plane or something - "scrub plane" seems to be an American term

 

[Billy Flitch]

Jacob you are quite right there is no British Standard for a scrub plane as the British scrub plane is the jack with a cambered iron (Jack of all trades Master of none).Iàm not taking my opinion from what some one has written but from my own experiences, use a schrupp hobel and compere it to a jack and only one comes out on top.

Scrub plane is not a American invention or terminology the Germans took the scrub planes with them to America.Australia,New Zealand and is Known as a Bismark plane where ever it turns up.

 

[Jacob]

Jacob you are quite right there is no British Standard for a scrub plane as the British scrub plane is the jack with a cambered iron (Jack of all trades Master of none).Iàm not taking my opinion from what some one has written but from my own experiences, use a schrupp hobel and compere it to a jack and only one comes out on top.

Scrub plane is not a American invention or terminology the Germans took the scrub planes with them to America.Australia,New Zealand and is Known as a Bismark plane where ever it turns up.

I've got an ECE with 33mm blade and I've used it and its really good - photo below. I widened the mouth a bit more so it takes an even deeper cut. I've got another one almost the same but wider which isn't quite a jack as it has a single iron. I just think of it as a wider scrub, much the same the one above. I only use them for cleaning up old timber as I happen to have a lot of it and am re-using it bit by bit. They are ideal, and surprisingly easy to use.
Call the wider ones jacks if you want! PS Fine-tools call the wider single iron version "jacks" here http://www.fine-tools.com/schrup.htm

 

[bugbear]

Jacob you are quite right there is no British Standard for a scrub plane as the British scrub plane is the jack with a cambered iron (Jack of all trades Master of none).Iàm not taking my opinion from what some one has written but from my own experiences, use a schrupp hobel and compere it to a jack and only one comes out on top.

Scrub plane is not a American invention or terminology the Germans took the scrub planes with them to America.Australia,New Zealand and is Known as a Bismark plane where ever it turns up.

Yes - Salaman has details on that (as ever).

I recall an article in Woodwork; a guy recalling all the lovely Victorian mahogany tables that his company recycled when he was an apprentice. He talked of "scrubbing them down", so the term is definitely known in England too.

BugBear

 

[Graham Orm]

More like a tug than the Bismark.....cute though. I've just bought a ........wait for it..............Faithfull #4 for £6 off ebay with the intention of making it into a cheap scrubber. The sole is visibly twisted so it might be assigned straight to the bin when I get round to having a go with it.

 

[Corneel]

Yes Jacob, the last one is a real Schrupphobel! The real Schrupphobel is a beast. Here's a video of one in use:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJKa9Czzy3Q

 

[Jacob]

Yes Jacob, the last one is a real Schrupphobel! ....

I know it is - it says so on the box! (Newish ECE). But I'll still call the other two "scrubs" if nobody minds. They just do a different sort of scrub (slightly wider and shallower) - a lot different from what I'd call a "jack" but very similar to Salaman's picture of a "Bismark".
My home made (by a professional) example has no stub handle behind the blade, but on the ECE model this is a bit too small for my hand so I wear a rigger glove if I'm doing a lot. Might be better without it altogether (as per Salaman's picture).

 

[bugbear]

My home made (by a professional) example

I think it's just a working cabinetmaker's self made tool - I don't think he was a specialist tool maker. If he were, one would expect the tools he made to be more exactly normal.

There was a HUGE sale of a cabinetmaker's tools local to me (7-9 chests of tools, I actually didn't count them). He was one "J Garood".

http://s48.photobucket.com/user/bugbear ... t=3&page=1

There were many examples of his work (parts of unfinished tables and curvy chairs and sofas). But there were also a large number of (marked) self made tools, as well as partially finished tools.

Tool making (to some standard or other) was simply part of a cabinetmakers skill set. I think your little plane fits nicely into that story.

BugBear

 

[AndyT]

Some interesting evidence there BB - thanks for sharing. Was there much interest to buy those tools? Did you buy any?

 

[Jacob]

Well yes I'm only guessing but many of his other tools were locally made which means he could have worked for the firm, and I'd say it was exactly normal - if you compare it to Salaman's picture of a Bismark. I'll post snaps of the others later.
On the other hand the firm's offcuts would be mostly beech so you are probably right.