Advice on My first Bandsaw (and last! if I get it right)

[glenp]

I'm new to the forum (my first post!) and am seeking advice on buying a new bandsaw, I've been searching on ebay for a secondhand machine such as a Startrite 352 but have had no luck with anything being within say 150 miles of Plymouth. So think I am going to have to buy new. Which may suit me better as my lack of experience may lead me to buying a dud! I want to be able to rip up to 150mm in Oak so believe I should get a machine with 230 to 250mm capacity?? I have shortlisted 3 machines:-
1, Record BS350s max cut 230mm 1 1/2 hp @£499.
2. Axminster AWHBS400N max cut 250mm 2hp @£475
3. Scheppac Basato 4 max cut 250 2hp @ £630
I don't want to buy a machine that I will regret in a month, or out grow as I gain more experience etc. What do you think? am I missing any models? is the Basato worth the additional money? if so why?

 

[steve_c]

I have just bought a Record BS300e (being delivered this afternoon ). I bought it at a Recortd show. The BS350S show price is £480 including a free wheel kit. (if you have a show happening near you). I had advice from a forum member who has the BS350 so he may chirp up! He has a review on here somewhere.

I've no experience of the other two other than I get a general negative vibe about Basato from some posts on here.

 

[Tenon]

I can't comment on the Basato or Startrite, but I have just taken delivery of the Record 350s bought at the price Steve_c quoted from a Record show in Norfolk. I have just finished assembling it, but have yet to cut any wood. It seems well made and all of the parts went together readily and accurately.

The bandsaw comes with the Alan Holtham Bandsaw Masterclass DVD where using a BS300, Alan cuts bowl blanks, re-sawed and ripped fine veneers from substantial pieces of timber and planked some small hardwood logs for box-making. To my novice bandsawing eyes it all looked very impressive.

 

[PerranOak]

How is the Record (or any other) for accuracy when using it to "thickness" a board?

 

[aesmith]

Best wishes. I would say that my bandsaw (BAS 315/6) has been my biggest disappointment in terms of tool purchases. The worst thing is that I'm not sure how I could have avoided that - the BAS315 was certainly really widely recommended and I have a feeling that even if I'd asked for opinions on a BB like this I'd probably not have been forewarned. Would a more expensive one have been better quality? Or just bigger.

Maybe I'm a bit jaded, but I don't think you can rely on quality nowadays, and for something like a bandsaw which really needs to run accurately I would be loath to buy on impulse. Really it needs to be from a local dealer so you can get shot of it if it turns out to be a pile of junk.

 

[Shultzy]

How is the Record (or any other) for accuracy when using it to "thickness" a board?

I think it depends on how well the machine is set up. I have cut 100mm thick pine within 1 mm of the required thickness, but as I put it through the thicknesser I'm not fussed.

 

[TobyB]

I looked at all of those machines, tried out the Record and Scheppach at the Harrogate show last november, and am delighted with the Basato 4 that arrived last month.

It's my first bandsaw, so I can't compare with any experience but ... out of the box the blade ran true, the table sat square, the fence was square to that, etc ... all the articles etc I'd read about tuning/getting the best from your saw I ticked off the boxes straight off. I've put some big chunks of oak and beech through it and it's cut 2 mm thin verneers or a big circular bowl blank very accurately ... and in the case of the former, the surface has been easy to plane flat afterwards. It feels like a powerful, accurate and safe machine to use.

The Record saws that I looked at felt lighter and less well made/finished, and the demo seemed much less powerful and accurate, struggling to do a neat cut on a 15 cm piece of oak ... whether it was well set up with a sharp blade I don't know, but it was midday on the first day of the show, so I'd have hoped so. The Basato seemed a much better machine on that day, and I'm very impressed with what I've been able to do with it so far - the errors have been the user and not the tool.

 

[glenp]

Tony your experience with the BAS 315 is exactly what I want to avoid! I have now had a good look at the Axminster model in their showroom and although the main machine seemed solid enough, cast iron wheels, strong steel casing, which looked like a clone of the Jet machines also on display. However the guard on the upper guide was very very flimsy, the rack and pinion to the guide was also light weight, and the fence was let down by its light weight alloy construction which could flex on the out-feed side by several mm when locked! When the blade guide was lowered to the mid point and locked it would flex by at least a mm or 2, which seems to me to be poor! Its like they start off with a decent generic casing and cut cost by fitting low price components (all the bits that you touch). Needless to say it is now off my list!
Glen

 

[dickm]

If you're not in a desperate hurry, I'd still advise keeping on with the Startrite 352 hunt! Mine cuts 2mm veneers or 6"+ oak accurately, will outlast me by decades and was a lot cheaper than the prices mentioned. But you do have to be patient and ready to pounce on the right machine when it comes up.

 

[glenp]

Dick you're, right a used 352 would be my 1st choice, I've got a few weeks left before I need to commit and will keep looking, I think the older machines were built to last (and made in England). A new 352e can be had for £799 but they are now made in Italy, see this review (Jan 09) http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/reviews/STE352E.pdf good but had faults which I think are inexcusable considering how long they been making saws!
Toby your comments on the Basato 4 are very helpful, I found similar positive feedback elsewhere on this forum, the following are links to reviews http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/reviews/Basato4%20review.pdf http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/page.asp?p=521
Thanks
Glen

 

[yetloh]

I have also tried the Electra Beckum and been very unimpressed by its general flimsiness.

As regards Record, I read on another thread recently that Record take a dim view of complaints from users who have bought thinking their machines suitable for trade use, saying they are only intended for the hobbyist market. As a serious amateur, that tells me all I need to know - look elsewhere. If you only want to buy one machine, buy one that will stand up to the rigours of trade use. That should more or less guarantee you a trouble-free experience with a machine that will hold it's adjustments and look after you.

I have a Felder which is in a different price bracket but there are good machines out there for less money. Look out for substantial bearing blade guides on really heavy supports, cast iron wheels and a thick cast iron table. A rigid chassis is vital. Stand as if you were about to use it put your foot on the base and then try pushing the top of the cabinet away from you. There should be little or no flex. you might be surprised at just how much flex there is in some machines' frames.

It really is worth spending that bit extra to get a good machine, even if it means waiting for it. I know, having bought a Kity 613 thinking it would do everything I would ever need it to. It wouldn't but I am sure my Felder will. I suspect the Basato might also do so.

Jim

 

[woodguy7]

Yetloh

Which model of Festool do you have & are you happy with it. I am also looking for my first bandsaw but am looking for one a little bit heavier. I was looking to spend around £1800.00 But will need a blade width of 32mm. I would need it to cut true straight tenons in 180mm oak. I have been recommended the Basato 5-2 but i think this only has a 25mm blade ? What price would the equivalent Felder be as i like Felder as i have their planer. I suppose Hammer might also be an option.

Sorry if i hi jacked this thread.

Woodguy

 

[markymark12]

I have had one of the so called industrial felders which i brought new many years ago. I had it in the workshop for around 2 months before i got shot of it. Just a badged product being sold on the back of some of their better kit. I replaced it with a Wadkin Bursgreen BZB, you can cut to within fractions of mm at 13" widths.
If you have the space stick with iron.

 

[big soft moose]

Startrite 352s seem to come up on ebay a fair bit - but they are quite hotly contested and rarely go for less than 400 notes (often a lot more) , plus a lot of them are three phase so you also need to budget for an inverter.

I'm a bit suprised to here the criticism of the record as i know several people who swear by their 300e and 350e - i guess it depends on what you want to do.

and re the basato range ivbe heard some critical things about them lately, and also they are very big (ie a large footprint) for their blade size and power.

The overiding thing tho is that regardless of make its how you set it up that makes the biggest difference - watching Mr Maskerys Workshop essential 4 & 5 was a revalation for me , and both my baby rexon and the axminster absw2 at work are now fettled to within an inch of their lives and a lot more accurate and useable than they were previously

 

[big soft moose]

I have had one of the so called industrial felders which i brought new many years ago. I had it in the workshop for around 2 months before i got shot of it. Just a badged product being sold on the back of some of their better kit. I replaced it with a Wadkin Bursgreen BZB, you can cut to within fractions of mm at 13" widths.
If you have the space stick with iron.

theres currently a bzb on ebay sitting at 50 quid (with two days to go) - the downsides are that its three phase , and its in johnstone (which i think is in scotland)

Also it is an absolute beast of a thing and would never fit in my 'shop

 

[Tintin]

I have a Record 300E. It isn't too bad for the price but i would opt for the 300X if the quality was better.

Top pully underframe poorly welded and constructed resulting in ...
a, Difficulty in adjusting the tilt when any tension is applied
b, Change in the tilt of the top wheel when saw blade is tensioned
c, Blade not square with table

Not to mention the blade itself ...I'm sure all the show machines have much better blades installed ...

Apart from those faults it cuts well enough when set up.

 

[ondablade]

My own bandsaw is a 12 inch Basato 5-4 i bought back around 1998. First off I've experience of no other comparable size machine, so this is an impression rather than experience based.

It's carefully set up by the routine outlined in i think it's the Duginske Bandsaw Book.

It's very good in the sense that it's well made, uses quality parts, stays in adjustment, cuts a line accurately, and so far i've had no problems.

My perception nevertheless is that it's not quite professional level machine. The issue i seem to run into is that on deeper cuts with coarse blades it can chatter. As in some sort of vertical vibration gets going in the line of the blade. This could be because i'm screwing up - maybe there's a technique that would avoid this. (?????)

It's got a fabricated steel chassis which inevitably is not going to be the best for vibration absorbtion, i'd suspect that something heavier and cast iron would be a better bet for e.g. deep resawing. It's on the other hand excellent for all sorts of general work. If i knew what i suspect now i think i'd probably have spent more - i'd certainly investigate further.

I've recently bought some Timberwolf blades from the US but haven't tried them out yet - the theory is that by using higher grade steel they can be thinner and use a thinner kerf - and so don't need quite so much tension (????) which may help these slightly lighter construction band saws.

I've even toyed with filling the chassis with sand or cement.....

ian

 

[oddsocks]

I have just bought a Record BS300e (being delivered this afternoon ). I bought it at a Record show. The BS350S show price is £480 including a free wheel kit. (if you have a show happening near you). I had advice from a forum member who has the BS350 so he may chirp up! He has a review on here somewhere.
.

duly chirping up

Here's the link to my original review https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums...ns-and-pics-t20001.html?highlight=350 bandsaw
I am still happy with my bandsaw, other than the wheel kit is a bit flimsy for the weight of the BS350 (i haven't got around to beefing up the metal bracket that holds the wheels) - If buying again i'd get the cabinet base version and fit my own wheels.

I've recently deep sawed 180mm American oak using a 3/4" blade (meat and fish one that is thinner). I bought this thinking it would be easier to tension (3/4 is the saw limit) but it does drift if pushed hard. Much better with a normal thickness 1/2" blade - that cuts true even in thick wood. As advised on many threads, buy good blades and set them up accurately. I used to use Dragon but recently used Hamilton edge saws. I have an electronic angle setter (ebay and axminster) and with it on the blade set to 0degrees then ensure the table is at exactly 90.

I've seen the comment re record saying hobby use, but from my perspective the 350 is at that top end - it may be that 'professional' saws have quicker guide settings (for the lower guides) but for me spending a few minutes getting it right after a blade change is not an issue.

 

[glenp]

Woodguy
If you are after an Industrial weight machine have you seen this Wadkin 24" BZB fully reconditioned on ebay for £1395 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wadkin-Bandsaw-24 ... 500wt_1182
it weighs a massive 620kg! I doubt they build them like that any more!
But this thread is drifting away from my search for a mid range saw.
Record have now (I think?) produced a new model the BS400 270mm cut 2 hp motor £699 to bridge the gap between the BS350 £499 & BS500 £899 any body seen one?

 

[aesmith]

One other thing for the original poster, if possible check out how easy all the adjustments are on the machine. It was a nasty surprise for me to find that you're supposed to remove table from the Electra Beckum in order to adjust the lower guides.