Chems
Established Member
PAR oak is expensive but if you must use it SL Hardwoods do it mail order. Or a local forum member might be able to tell you the best proper timber yards.
Advice - Built in cupboards
- Thread starter Sagly
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
Sagly
Established Member
I've been quoted £350 for both tops made from 43mm thick oak. It would be nice to get 43mm thick PAR boards and join them myself but with oak being so expensive I don't trust myself.
Chems
Established Member
Thats REALLY expensive. Like unbelivable. I paid that for all the Oak I used to make an entire desk and side unit, with 2 solid tops that were over 3m long by 50mm thick 600mm wide.
Find a local joiner or timber yard, surely do it cheaper! If you get them PAR and joint them yourself, all you need to do is make sure that you align them well when you clamp them up and they will only need a light sand and maybe a bit of card scraping to get them perfect.
If your going to pay that much for them I'd do them for you cheaper!
Find a local joiner or timber yard, surely do it cheaper! If you get them PAR and joint them yourself, all you need to do is make sure that you align them well when you clamp them up and they will only need a light sand and maybe a bit of card scraping to get them perfect.
If your going to pay that much for them I'd do them for you cheaper!
Benchwayze
Established Member
I know oak is going to be more expensive than softwoods, but I have never been particularly horrified at any quote I had for rough sawn oak. What you have been quoted even with the machining, is a bit jaw-dropping.
Certainly expect to pay more for quarter-sawn oak, but if you find a timber merchant who is tolerant of the needs of smaller buyers, and will let you pick through stock, then buy either a centre board, or boards from close to the heart of the log. You get the same medullary effect as with quarter sawn, and the boards tend to be wider too.
Pity you don't live closer, as you would be welcome to use my planer-thicknesser for a few 'beer-tokens', meaning you could buy rough sawn.
Good Luck
John
Certainly expect to pay more for quarter-sawn oak, but if you find a timber merchant who is tolerant of the needs of smaller buyers, and will let you pick through stock, then buy either a centre board, or boards from close to the heart of the log. You get the same medullary effect as with quarter sawn, and the boards tend to be wider too.
Pity you don't live closer, as you would be welcome to use my planer-thicknesser for a few 'beer-tokens', meaning you could buy rough sawn.
Good Luck
John
billybuntus
Established Member
£350 for a couple of tops for those units :shock: someones pulling your pisher
Sagly
Established Member
Once again, i'm glad I came on here! I thought it was expensive but my other option was to buy 2 of these
http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/10123675#/10123675/ at £100 & £150 and they are only made of staves so will always look like i've got kitchen worktops in my lounge!
The tops need to be 1300 x 360 x 43(ish) and 1250 x 360 x 43(ish) so they are quite narrow. 2no. 3m planks at 180mm wide and 43mm thick would be enough. Maybe I will have a go at making them myself? (hammer)
http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/10123675#/10123675/ at £100 & £150 and they are only made of staves so will always look like i've got kitchen worktops in my lounge!
The tops need to be 1300 x 360 x 43(ish) and 1250 x 360 x 43(ish) so they are quite narrow. 2no. 3m planks at 180mm wide and 43mm thick would be enough. Maybe I will have a go at making them myself? (hammer)
No skills
Established Member
Go for it! you will get enough good advice from the fine folks here to achive what you need.
One thing though, can you not make thinner oak tops (say 25mm) but with a 43mm thick front lip to get the 'look' of a thicker top. Could save a bit on materials.
One thing though, can you not make thinner oak tops (say 25mm) but with a 43mm thick front lip to get the 'look' of a thicker top. Could save a bit on materials.
Benchwayze
Established Member
Sagly,
Get hold of two 12 x 2 pine planks long enough for the job. Practice edge jointing them.
You can have two attempts, by jointing each of the four edges. If you don't get it right, rip afresh and keep on until it comes.
I find that the width of pieces to be rub jointed does make a slight difference to the feel of making this joint. So, once your practice pieces get less than 8" wide, buy some more 12" wide stock. But I bet you won't need to. I'll stand to be corrected, but I think you'll find it will become easier and it's the only way to learn.
Joining the oak will be slightly more difficult, so when you move over to the oak, you should aim to have pieces wide enough to allow you more than one try at the joint.
Go for it. When you have mastered it, don't throw out the pine. It might come in handy! :mrgreen:
For the lengths of joint you are going to work, I would suggest you need at least Numbers 5 and a half and No. 7 Baileys.
Good Luck
John
Get hold of two 12 x 2 pine planks long enough for the job. Practice edge jointing them.
You can have two attempts, by jointing each of the four edges. If you don't get it right, rip afresh and keep on until it comes.
I find that the width of pieces to be rub jointed does make a slight difference to the feel of making this joint. So, once your practice pieces get less than 8" wide, buy some more 12" wide stock. But I bet you won't need to. I'll stand to be corrected, but I think you'll find it will become easier and it's the only way to learn.
Joining the oak will be slightly more difficult, so when you move over to the oak, you should aim to have pieces wide enough to allow you more than one try at the joint.
Go for it. When you have mastered it, don't throw out the pine. It might come in handy! :mrgreen:
For the lengths of joint you are going to work, I would suggest you need at least Numbers 5 and a half and No. 7 Baileys.
Good Luck
John
Chems
Established Member
No skills":11brfe9s said:
This is great advice, save you a ton of money.
If your buying PAR you shouldn't have to do much to the edge to get it to joint anyway if its been PAR'ed well.
Benchwayze
Established Member
Agreed.
You might even get away with just a Jack plane to joint up too.
John
You might even get away with just a Jack plane to joint up too.
John
Chems
Established Member
Yes I think John is right again, when I mill my own boards I try to get it so that they are perfectly flat along there edge and no gap at all all the way along, but with longer lengths or when I don't have the machinery, I do the spring joint, I just use my No 4.5 and little swipe in the middle.
Benchwayze
Established Member
Aye, and there's the rub.... :mrgreen:
Sorry..... Hat, coat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Door!
John
Sorry..... Hat, coat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Door!
John
Sagly
Established Member
Well, I went and ordered some oak boards today. I got 2no. 3m long 190mm wide PAR boards 43mm thick for £194. I'll go and pick them up on saturday. Given that this is a first attempt, I will keep it all full thickness for simplicity (although it was a bl**dy good idea 'no skills' :wink: )
All that talk of planes may as well have been in French (yup - I really am that green! :? ) so i've had a little look on youtube etc. and now I think I understand what you've been talking about. Looks like I need to get hold of a number 4.5 bailey?
Do I need to biscuit the joints or can I just glue them?
All that talk of planes may as well have been in French (yup - I really am that green! :? ) so i've had a little look on youtube etc. and now I think I understand what you've been talking about. Looks like I need to get hold of a number 4.5 bailey?
Do I need to biscuit the joints or can I just glue them?
You don't need a biscuit jointer but biscuits or something similar will help you keep the two boards aligned as you glue them up. You will need several clamps though. You can get a slot cutter to use with a router that will cut biscuit slots (That's assuming you have a router).
Mick
Mick
Sagly
Established Member
Yup, I have a router in my arsenal!
Chems
Established Member
Don't bother with any form of alignment, use some clamps and some waxed cauls to clamp across the faces to keep them straight and in line when you apply pressure to the edges.
You may not need a plane at all, if they are nicely PAR'ed that may just butt up perfectly as they should if prepared right. But cross cut them to rough length first rather than try and glue up the entire 3m in one go and then crosscut for each side of the alcove. Its easier to get a good join from the clamps on a shorter length.
You'll need a very good well tuned plane to take nice shavings on oak so dry clamp them up, if you can't see daylight through the joins when you hold them up to the light your all set, if you can then come back and ask for more advice! I'd say rather than plane it if its not 100% straight then a router straight edge jig will give best results for a beginner. All you'll need is a nice straight edge of something about 1.5m long like a MDF board or something.
You may not need a plane at all, if they are nicely PAR'ed that may just butt up perfectly as they should if prepared right. But cross cut them to rough length first rather than try and glue up the entire 3m in one go and then crosscut for each side of the alcove. Its easier to get a good join from the clamps on a shorter length.
You'll need a very good well tuned plane to take nice shavings on oak so dry clamp them up, if you can't see daylight through the joins when you hold them up to the light your all set, if you can then come back and ask for more advice! I'd say rather than plane it if its not 100% straight then a router straight edge jig will give best results for a beginner. All you'll need is a nice straight edge of something about 1.5m long like a MDF board or something.
And don't let the bars of your clamps rest against the glue line, you will get black marks on the wood. Also an alternative to waxing the cauls is to put a bit of brown parcel tape on them, risk with wax is it can get into the wood and affect water based finishes.
J
J
Sagly
Established Member
While i'm asking hundreds of questions, here's another one.....
I'll also be putting up floating shelves (like the first picture in this thread) and I will pick up some MR MDF when I collect the oak. The question is how should I construct the shelves. They will be mainly for ornaments and a few smaller books but the rear wall is of a floating plasterboard construction in order to provide soundproofing from next door, so I can't drill into it (although I could stick to it?).
I was thinking about screwing 18mm battens to the two side walls of each alcove and making shelves out of a sandwich of 12mm then 18mm then 12mm MR MDF with a notch cut out of the 18mm so that it slides over the battens (similar to some other threads on here)?
Any thoughts?
I'll also be putting up floating shelves (like the first picture in this thread) and I will pick up some MR MDF when I collect the oak. The question is how should I construct the shelves. They will be mainly for ornaments and a few smaller books but the rear wall is of a floating plasterboard construction in order to provide soundproofing from next door, so I can't drill into it (although I could stick to it?).
I was thinking about screwing 18mm battens to the two side walls of each alcove and making shelves out of a sandwich of 12mm then 18mm then 12mm MR MDF with a notch cut out of the 18mm so that it slides over the battens (similar to some other threads on here)?
Any thoughts?
Glueing the rear batten won't be ideal, you could use plasterboard fixings which won't go into the masonary behind so should not affect the sound insulation together with a bead of gripfil. 1.3m is a bit much to just use the two ends for support without a fixed rear batten.
If you cut the middle board say 25mm narrower and 50mm shorter then glue and clamp it into a sandwich thats a lot easier than trying to cut teh groove afterwards. Just make sure the alcove does not get larger towards the back as the shelf won't slip on without a gap but if you are painting then painters mate will take care of reasonable gaps.
j
If you cut the middle board say 25mm narrower and 50mm shorter then glue and clamp it into a sandwich thats a lot easier than trying to cut teh groove afterwards. Just make sure the alcove does not get larger towards the back as the shelf won't slip on without a gap but if you are painting then painters mate will take care of reasonable gaps.
j
TheTiddles
Established Member
Sagly":3jsgtvyk said:
ouch, you want to see a doctor about that!
Oh, sorry, miss-read the last word
