adapting old chisels

[madmurph]

I am new to lathe work, I have a number of old carpenters chisels, are they suitable for reshaping for scraping etc, I also saw many years ago about grinding the ends of files for the same thing, any suggestions, anything to save a few bob whilst I buy the gauges etc
Madmurph

 

[nev]

Quick answer, no and no, if you value your fingers, palms and various other bodily parts
Someone should be along shortly with an explanation

 

[Wildman]

I'm sorry Nev I disagree in part, I have always used old chisels with new handles. The quality of the steel in old chisels is far superior to some of the crap turning tools out there. So am looking forward to hear from the dissenters as to why it is considered a dangerous practice. Files on the other hand would need full heat treatment to be suitable as they are hardened but not tempered and as brittle as hell.

 

[NazNomad]

I've reshaped (and re-handled) old chisels into bead-forming tools for the lathe. I didn't realise it was dangerous.

 

[nev]

Mr Madmurph above is as stated new to turning and will therefore probably get a catch or two along the learning curve, I know I did.
Files, as said, are brittle and likely to break with an impact.
Chisels may or may not be suitable for a regrind depending on the type and the future use. Too short a tang and too much leverage are not a good combination. Yes, you could, as Naz has done shape a beading tool, a generally delicate manoeuvre and unlikely to bite back, and maybe a few other styles of gouge but 20 or 30 quid is cheaper than a new finger or eyeball etc.
Far safer I think to err on the side of caution and advise new turners no and no.

 

[NazNomad]

... but 20 or 30 quid is cheaper than a new finger or eyeball etc.

Can't argue with that.

 

[Bodrighy]

Ordinairy wood working cisels are also on tangs in the handle, a weak point for snapping. As faras being better quality steel maybe that is true of the chap turning tools you can get but not of the new ones. Remember that they are also made from carbon steel which is more brittle as well so again prone to snapping with the stresses put on them when turning. I have had good quality modern hss tools bend and snap on me so would definitly not use any made from bench chisels and cetainly not files. Maybe there are those who do and have yet to have one snap but it isn't worth the risk. If you are jus starting out then you only need a few tools anyway and can build up your stock as you progress. Better a few quality ones than cheap oir home made poor quality ones IMHO.

Pete

 

[graduate_owner]

I have hear of people regrinding leaf springs from vehicles to use as scrapers, but I haven't tried it.

Has anyone tried welding hss to make turning tools? I was thinking about buying: lengths of hss but they seem to come in lengths up to 8" which is too short, but would it be possible to mig weld a section of mild steel to the hss? The mild steel would then form the tang plus add a bit to the overall length of the tool.

Any suggestions regarding this?

I think I' ll start a new thread in the metal mangling section on this .

K

 

[woodpig]

Woodturning tools used to be made from the same steel as ordinary wood working tools so to suggest this type of steel is unsuitable isn't correct. Yes, HSS lasts longer between sharpening but many old turners reckoned you could get a better edge on carbon tool steels. Provided they are handled correctly and have a reasonable tang on them I see no reason why they shouldn't be used for scrapers on a lathe. I personally wouldn't use a file as they're likely too hard to be used safely but if you're confident you can temper them correctly I suppose they could be used. Lot of effort required to remove the teeth and reshape though.

 

[madmurph]

My thanks to everyone who replied to my inquiry
I think I shall go along with the general consensus and leave well alone, I shall bide my time and add slowly

Thanks to all

 

[Spindle]

I was thinking about buying: lengths of hss but they seem to come in lengths up to 8"

Hi

You can get longer lengths from the major steel stockholders though whether that is going to be any more economical than buying unhandled tools is questionable.

With regard to fabricating turning tools from old chisels - I'm in the don't do it camp as far as beginners go.

From files - a definite no no

Regards Mick

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

One avenue worth considering for saving money on the cost of tools is to go to the tool fairs, specifically where dealers in 2nd hand turning tools attend. The one in Detling Kent always has one or two dealers there and tool steel bought unhandled that way is significantly cheaper than the posh stuff ready made.

 

[steve w]

interesting thread - one i appreciate as i have used a few old chisels but will be a bit more carefull now - thanks steve

 

[NickWelford]

I have a couple of useful three faced pointy tools ground from lengths of hss bar purchased as bar from Ashley isles. One needs to make a handle and, of course, grind the profile, but one pointy one and on ground at an angle (not sure what to call it) can be used very much like a skew.

 

[chipmunk]

+1 for Woodpig's comments - Clearly few posters on this thread have ever read any of Dave Springett's books.

DS advocates creating special scrapers from cheap woodchisels - drilled, sawn and filed to shape. I've made several scrapers this way and they are perfectly ok. Most wood chisels will bend if you get a catch and are not going to shatter like untempered files would and as Woodpig says Carbon steel tools can be sharpened to a keener edge than HSS - handy for skew chisels.

Jon

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Certainly, but there's a difference between an experienced turner making a small ornament or puzzle and a learner making bowls from bits of tree stump or sleeper.

 

[chipmunk]

...but I'd argue that if a learner is going to use a completely inappropriate tool then the effect of steel choice is not so clear-cut.

What is often overlooked in these discussions is that HSS is tough but quite brittle and it will shatter if abused badly. John Davis used to have a 3/8" Record bowl gouge with its end snapped off in his shop and I have plenty of spindly 6mm or smaller HSS tools that will simply shatter if used inappropriately and subject to a bad catch. In fact the way I make my small HSS cutters is to grind a groove in the HSS toolbit with a Dremel and snap it by holding one end in the vice and hitting the other end with a hammer (eye protection on and a rag over it to catch the bits if tehre are any). You can't do that with a tempered chisel it'll bend instead.

So, if a learner really abuses a HSS tool I believe it will be much more dangerous as the shrapnel starts to fly around the workshop, and in this respect behaves closer to the reground files that are legitimately taboo, than an old tempered chisel or lump of carbon steel that's more likely to bend.

Jon

 

[selectortone]

Woodturning tools used to be made from the same steel as ordinary wood working tools so to suggest this type of steel is unsuitable isn't correct. Yes, HSS lasts longer between sharpening but many old turners reckoned you could get a better edge on carbon tool steels.

One of my favourite tools is an old carbon steel round nose scraper that I bought unhandled off ebay for a few pounds. It needs sharpening more than my HSS tools but the edge I get on it is superb. Just the job for finishing cuts on the inside of a bowl.

 

[duncanh]

My best shear scrapers are both carbon steel and one of them used to be a chisel. It has a chunky tang

 

[heimlaga]

Old files make good turning chisels and scrapers and even parting tools if you have the necsessary skill and equipment to do the job properly.

-Anneal the file
-Grind away the teeth
-Grind away some material so you get a longer and thicker tang.
-Grind the edge roughly to shape but leave a bit of extra thickness.
-Harden the tip.
-Temper the tip

Files are dangerously brittle the way they are tempered from factory and in order to grind away the teeth easily you need to first anneal away all the temper. If you don't remove the teeth the file will dig into the tool rest.