A bench too far ???

[big soft moose]

or on the otherside ?

reason for asking is a bit complex

basically we've got for want of a better term , a client (ie someone who wants us to build and install a memorial bench) who wants us to copy one of his designs


and I'm not comfortable with copying someone elses work without speaking to them first - course i know i could contact him via his website but i thought if he were a member then we would have some common ground to start from

(I'd also note that if he says "no F 'king way" I'd be happy with that - as it gives me summat to go back to the "client" with - as we arent getting paid beyond cost of materials i'm not that wedded to doing the job)

 

[BradNaylor]

With due respect to Mr Nangle (who I don't know) I don't think that that qualifies as a 'design'!

Basic rustic benches such as this have been thrown together since prehistoric times. I'm sure I've seen the same one on 'The Flintstones'!

Just because your client has seen an example on his website doesn't give him any intellectual property rights over such a generic design.

Just make the bloody thing!

 

[big soft moose]

Basic rustic benches such as this have been thrown together since prehistoric times. I'm sure I've seen the same one on 'The Flintstones'!

Just because your client has seen an example on his website doesn't give him any intellectual property rights over such a generic design.

one could say the same about mdf alcove units- theres very little new under the sun - so would you feel the same if i was being asked to copy one of your jobs (not that we do that kind of work but you get theb point)

 

[BradNaylor]

one could say the same about mdf alcove units- theres very little new under the sun - so would you feel the same if i was being asked to copy one of your jobs (not that we do that kind of work but you get theb point)

I'm sure it happens all the time, and it doesn't bother me in the least. As you say, there is nothing unique in most of the work I do and I could never claim to have been the first to come up with a particular idea or design.

99.9% of furniture is generic in this way. 'Copying' just isn't an issue as no intellectual property exists. It is only in the very small proportion of 'designer' furniture that the question of infringement of copyright can ever come up.

Copying age-old designs is how everyone learns, after all.

 

[squib]

BSM, good of you to ask and quite right as it will give the original designer the choice, i imagine he will be pleased.
Why not drop him an email.

 

[Ironballs]

I'd do as Brad says and just make it, seems like a fairly standard design to me

 

[Max Power]

As Brad has quite correctly pointed out there is nothing unique to that example. Hes hardly re-invented the wheel by using a couple of planks to park your backside on and a plank for a backrest

 

[richburrow]

I went to college with Chris and he not one to mince his words, to say the least!!!!!!!

 

[chris nangle furniture]

hi just seen this site flag up on my google account, and found the question about my work.
thanks for asking mr moose very good of you sir.
to be honest I would rather you did not copy my work as a rule your client should come to me, as I do own the intellectual property rights to the work and the copyright,contrary to what brad says ,and we always take legal action when we find copy infrigement!
However in this ocasion I will say go ahead fella just dont come to me when you put your back out.


hope your fine and dandy Rich

 

[Karl]

I do own the intellectual property rights to the work and the copyright,contrary to what brad says ,and we always take legal action when we find copy infrigement!

Out of interest, how do you copyright a simple bench made from a few planks of wood? Did you make the one in my local park?

Cheers

Karl

 

[big soft moose]

I do own the intellectual property rights to the work and the copyright,contrary to what brad says ,and we always take legal action when we find copy infrigement!

Out of interest, how do you copyright a simple bench made from a few planks of wood? Did you make the one in my local park?

Cheers

Karl

To be fair I expect that it is the exact design that is copyright - that bench is far from standard - which i suspect is why the client likes it.

This is also why, to be brutally frank , I would prefer not to make the damn thing because it is considerably out of line with what we normally make and therefore we will have to work out the design from scratch and order the materials in specially

I had already tried to push the client towards buying one from Mr Nangle - which would be easier allround for us , but she has now decided that she wants one 4ft 6 in length - which isnt one of the nangle standard lengths according to his website (6ft was too long for the location where she wants it put)

So it looks like we are fabricating it - however i will use Chris's reply to illustrate to the client why we cant make an exact copy - so that she doesnt expect a bang on replica which will make our life easier.

In case anyone thinks i'm displaying a huge lack of buisness acumen I should explain that I'm not a Pro in the sense of which Karl, Brad, Chris Nangle etc are. I run a volunteer scheme for some rights of way - part of which is a workshop volunteers project fabricating trail furniture (signs, notice boards, bridges etc), when we get people who want memorial benches we generally make them too - but although the client/donor pays for the materials we dont make anything on the deal unless they decide to make a donation in gratitude for our time (and you'd be shocked how few do so) Thereore it is no skin off my nose if the client buys a bench elsewhere and has us install it.
.

 

[BradNaylor]

I would rather you did not copy my work as a rule your client should come to me, as I do own the intellectual property rights to the work and the copyright,contrary to what brad says ,and we always take legal action when we find copy infrigement!

You might think that you own the intellectual property rights to that bench Chris, but if it ever went to court you would lose.

There is simply not enough about it that is unique. I'm not suggesting that people go around copying stuff; its just that when a design is so generic it is quite clear that nobody 'owns' it.

Here's a picture of a chest of drawers I made for a client last week. I didn't copy it from anywhere - I just sketched out what they wanted and then made it.

Could I claim intellectual property rights over the design? Of course not! It's a bog standard piece. Like (with all respect) that bench.

Cheers
Brad

 

[chris nangle furniture]

I dont think mate I know! and have won in a court,so perhaps you should take it up with acid who fight my corner ,its my design I own it and thats about it matey.

 

[chris nangle furniture]

To be fair I expect that it is the exact design that is copyright - that bench is far from standard - which i suspect is why the client likes it.

This is also why, to be brutally frank , I would prefer not to make the damn thing because it is considerably out of line with what we normally make and therefore we will have to work out the design from scratch and order the materials in specially

I had already tried to push the client towards buying one from Mr Nangle - which would be easier allround for us , but she has now decided that she wants one 4ft 6 in length - which isnt one of the nangle standard lengths according to his website (6ft was too long for the location where she wants it put)

So it looks like we are fabricating it - however i will use Chris's reply to illustrate to the client why we cant make an exact copy - so that she doesnt expect a bang on replica which will make our life easier.

In case anyone thinks i'm displaying a huge lack of buisness acumen I should explain that I'm not a Pro in the sense of which Karl, Brad, Chris Nangle etc are. I run a volunteer scheme for some rights of way - part of which is a workshop volunteers project fabricating trail furniture (signs, notice boards, bridges etc), when we get people who want memorial benches we generally make them too - but although the client/donor pays for the materials we dont make anything on the deal unless they decide to make a donation in gratitude for our time (and you'd be shocked how few do so) Thereore it is no skin off my nose if the client buys a bench elsewhere and has us install it.

thanks mate, we do make the work in any size although we batch produce the furniture it can be changed to suit.

.[/quote]

 

[woodbloke]

For the life of me, I can't see what's unique or indeed inspiring about that design...it's a big, slabby, park bench. Get hold of some oak and just make the thing Moosey - Rob

 

[big soft moose]

For the life of me, I can't see what's unique or indeed inspiring about that design...it's a big, slabby, park bench. Get hold of some oak and just make the thing Moosey - Rob

my biggest problem is that the legs look to be about 4" thick - given that our tablesaw only cuts to 2.5" depth and our bandsaw is currently U/S how the heck do I cut the angles for the back ? - I'm sure as hell not going to try and do two exactly the same by hand.

The client also wants a carved in memorial on the seat back - given that its too big to fit under our cnc this means hand carving which is not something we've done before - I have a feeling we are going to wind up subbing that bit out. (i'll be asking on here nearer the time)

 

[woodbloke]

my biggest problem is that the legs look to be about 4" thick - given that our tablesaw only cuts to 2.5" depth and our bandsaw is currently U/S how the heck do I cut the angles for the back ? - I'm sure as hell not going to try and do two exactly the same by hand.

Doable Moosey :wink: ...take you about 15 mins to do one of those sloping cuts - Rob

 

[wizer]

Pete I thought you was 'Mr Chainsaw' ? I think you're over complicating this design. As Rob says, it's a park bench, not a studio piece. Chainsaw it, then belt sand it smooth!

 

[big soft moose]

my biggest problem is that the legs look to be about 4" thick - given that our tablesaw only cuts to 2.5" depth and our bandsaw is currently U/S how the heck do I cut the angles for the back ? - I'm sure as hell not going to try and do two exactly the same by hand.

Doable Moosey :wink: ...take you about 15 mins to do one of those sloping cuts - Rob

yeah but doing two the same angle [-o<

I'll probably wind up getting eynsham park to stick the bits through their big ass circular.

 

[big soft moose]

Pete I thought you was 'Mr Chainsaw' ? I think you're over complicating this design. As Rob says, it's a park bench, not a studio piece. Chainsaw it, then belt sand it smooth!

If it was "just a park bench" , it would be a piece of wee wee - couple of jarrah slepers, few chainsaw cuts , whack it together with dowels or coachh bolts with plugs over them to hide them and jobs a good 'un (we've done quite a few of those already)

However this is a very demanding client who wants a "perfect" piece as a memorial to her late mother - I tried to persuade her to go with a bought piece by estimating on the high side for wood , but nuttin doing, cash isnt an object, but quality workmanship is - i dont see her being happy with the chainsaw and belt sander approach . Also making long straight cuts with a chainsaw free hand is a puppy - I am "mr chainsaw" but my particular skill is felling hung up and windthrown trees in difficult positions - If you want a half rotten and leany 50ft oak dropping degree perfect between a greenhouse and a busy road then i'm your man (so long as you have about a grand handy ) but making two long angled cuts the same in a joinery piece - not my bag.