#4 1/2 Smoother - LN vs Clifton...

[Aled Dafis]

Hi, I'm in the market for a decent 4 1/2 to complement my excellent Clifton #3 #5 1/2 and #7, it must also have an O1 iron (I really dislike A2!!). So, you're all probably screaming "Just buy a Clifton 4 1/2".

The thing is, when I started buying nice planes I lusted after a Lie Nielsen, but through reasoning and frugality, I've ended up with 3 Clifton's and a Veritas LAJ (now in the for sale section), so this is probably my last chance at a LN smoother as I can't see me getting rid of the Cliftons any time soon, this purchase will probably complete my bench plane arsenal. This irrational hankering for a LN just won't go away, much as I've fought it over the past few weeks. :? :?

My options seem to be:

1. Buy a LN 4 1/2 from Axminster and add an O1 iron. £282 + £40ish
2. Import a 4 1/2 directly from LN with O1 iron and York pitch frog. £250 + Import duty? + VAT?
3. Buy a second hand LN 4 1/2 and add an O1 iron. £???
4. Just go for the Clifton and be done with it!

One other thing, if I import frm the USA, would you guys go for the 55 degree frog? Do you think that the performance improvement would compensate for the extra effort required in pushing it? Bearing in mind that my Cliftons perform very well at 45 degrees. It only adds $10 to the price so that's neither here nor there really.

Cheers
Aled

P.S. I can't wait to get back to school tomorrow, I seem to have too much thinking time on my hands... :?

 

[Richard T]

5. Make one

Go on, go on, go on .... etc.

 

[JohnCee]

I think you should go for a L-N if you fancy one.
If you go down this route and end up with an A2 iron surplus to requirements, give me a shout and I'll buy it off you.

 

[shim20]

have a word with classic hand tools they might swap the a2 for the o1? worth a try, i also wanted to try a ln so got a no5 on the way , but will change to o1 i also hate a2

 

[JohnCee]

What do you chaps find wrong with A2? I've tried quite a few different irons in O1, D2 and W1(?) and the A2 Lie Nielsen betters them all in every respect (imho).

 

[woodbloke]

What do you chaps find wrong with A2? I've tried quite a few different irons in O1, D2 and W1(?) and the A2 Lie Nielsen betters them all in every respect (imho).

At too shallow a honing angle, the edge will crumble, as the deep scratches on the sole of my LN block plane will attest to. An A2 blade needs to be honed to at least 33deg and possibly more...I know MrC hones his at 35deg - Rob

 

[JohnCee]

Ah yes, you do need to bear this in mind with A2. Although I have experienced no problem with 30 degree bevels, I have to say.

 

[paulm]

For what it's worth Aled, I sold most of my LN planes and went with Cliftons instead.

A personal thing but, fine planes though they were, the LN's just didn't have the feel or soul of the Cliftons for me.

I respected the LN's but love the Cliffies ! :lol:

Having said that, I still hanker after a bronze LN No 4, just because it's bronze 8)

Cheers, Paul

 

[richarnold]

Hi Just a few thoughts on blades I must have been among the first people to buy a LN block plane in this counry, and have always loved the plane, but I have to say i've hated the blades. The plane has been used almost daily, and I'm on my second blade and i have always found it a pig to sharpen compared to the pre war blades in my other planes.I recently purchased a block plane from workshop heaven, and it came with a spare blade i've fitted this to the LN, and it has transformed it. My working partner also has a LN block plane, but also hates the blade, so it's not just me!!!!

 

[Blister]

The Green machines get my vote :wink:

 

[JohnCee]

Hi Just a few thoughts on blades I must have been among the first people to buy a LN block plane in this counry, and have always loved the plane, but I have to say i've hated the blades. The plane has been used almost daily, and I'm on my second blade and i have always found it a pig to sharpen compared to the pre war blades in my other planes.I recently purchased a block plane from workshop heaven, and it came with a spare blade i've fitted this to the LN, and it has transformed it. My working partner also has a LN block plane, but also hates the blade, so it's not just me!!!!

Funny old world. I've found almost exactly the opposite.

 

[Scouse]

I have a feeling that it will just come down to personal taste and what feels right for you with every one having their own experience and preference.

My two-penneth, I have two L-N 4 1/2s, one standard and one with a high angle frog (50 Degree), in amongst 14 L-N planes. No problems with A2, no problems with feel or character, just very good workhorse tools. Personal preference, though. As for the frog, I use very hard and difficult grained woods regularly, and find the 50 degree ok, never tried a 55 though so it may be better for difficult wood.

Having said that, for a few of my vintage planes, I am considering Clifton irons as replacements, just to have non-A2 alternatives...

El.

 

[Aled Dafis]

Hi Just a few thoughts on blades I must have been among the first people to buy a LN block plane in this counry, and have always loved the plane, but I have to say i've hated the blades. The plane has been used almost daily, and I'm on my second blade and i have always found it a pig to sharpen compared to the pre war blades in my other planes.I recently purchased a block plane from workshop heaven, and it came with a spare blade i've fitted this to the LN, and it has transformed it. My working partner also has a LN block plane, but also hates the blade, so it's not just me!!!!

Funny you should mention that, I've found almost every A2 iron I've used to be a bit of a pain to sharpen, that is EXCEPT for my LN Block plane, which sharpens to a lovely edge in no time at all and retains it's edge for ages.

Funny old world eh??

Cheers
Aled

 

[Aled Dafis]

For what it's worth Aled, I sold most of my LN planes and went with Cliftons instead.

A personal thing but, fine planes though they were, the LN's just didn't have the feel or soul of the Cliftons for me.

I respected the LN's but love the Cliffies ! :lol:

Having said that, I still hanker after a bronze LN No 4, just because it's bronze 8)

Cheers, Paul

Paul I kick myself regularly that I didn't buy the limited edition Bronze 4 1/2, I very nearly did on more than one occasion but the "voice of reason" told me that I didn't need one. Grrrrrrr.

I'm totally with you on the feel of the Cliftons, I love my team of 3, it's just that irrational niggle that pulls me towards the LN this time, I guess that it's just an itch that needs to be scratched.

Does anybody have any advice as to avoiding the dreaded import duties and tax??

Cheers
Aled

 

[JohnCee]

For what it's worth Aled, I sold most of my LN planes and went with Cliftons instead.

A personal thing but, fine planes though they were, the LN's just didn't have the feel or soul of the Cliftons for me.

I respected the LN's but love the Cliffies ! :lol:

Having said that, I still hanker after a bronze LN No 4, just because it's bronze 8)

Cheers, Paul

Does anybody have any advice as to avoiding the dreaded import duties and tax??

Cheers
Aled

Getting them to send it by USPS (NB not UPS) would be the best bet. You will always pay VAT/import duty with courier companies like Fedex, in my experience.

 

[Aled Dafis]

For what it's worth Aled, I sold most of my LN planes and went with Cliftons instead.

A personal thing but, fine planes though they were, the LN's just didn't have the feel or soul of the Cliftons for me.

I respected the LN's but love the Cliffies ! :lol:

Having said that, I still hanker after a bronze LN No 4, just because it's bronze 8)

Cheers, Paul

Does anybody have any advice as to avoiding the dreaded import duties and tax??

Cheers
Aled

Getting them to send it by USPS (NB not UPS) would be the best bet. You will always pay VAT/import duty with courier companies like Fedex, in my experience.

Thanks John, any idea how long it would take via USPS?

 

[JohnCee]

Thanks John, any idea how long it would take via USPS?

I've had delivery times ranging from 3 days to 3 weeks, and not found any difference between Global Priority and international express (I think that's what they call the slightly more expensive option).

 

[Harbo]

Yes USPS is the safest bet, at this end the PO take over.
Sadly in Winchester they have become "wise" to imports and have added charges on a few instances.
Sometimes they don't, so for me it's a bit of a gamble?

Rod

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Hi Aled

Just for reference, the Clifton #4 1/2 blade works beautifully with the LN #4 1/2 (I know!).

Now if you are to get the LN, I would recommend the 55 frog as well. This is the advantage of LN over Clifton - you get a choice of frogs. The LN would then be a go-to plane for interlocked grain (especially since you are selling the LAJ ... why?).

I find mine moves quite sweetly with a scribble of candle wax on the sole.

Here are my two LNs, #4 1/2 and #3 ..

Not the ultimate performers that the LV BU planes are, but very nice to use (and preferred when I just want to freehand sharpen and not use a honing guide with the BU planes).

I've found almost every A2 iron I've used to be a bit of a pain to sharpen ...

When I read comments like this I can only assume that someone is using the wrong media. A2 sharpens up almost as easily - perhaps as easily - as O1 when using waterstones such as Shaptons. They get as sharp then and hold the edge significantly longer.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[woodbloke]

For what it's worth Aled, I sold most of my LN planes and went with Cliftons instead.

...but what you didn't say Paul, is that it was the collectors special edition(s!) that you went for :-" :-" :lol: :lol: - Rob