.

[selectortone]

Predicted many moons ago

And taken to its logical conclusion in the 1961 short story 'Harrison Bergeron' by Kurt Vonnegut.

In the year 2081, the 211th, 212th, and 213th amendments to the Constitution dictate that all Americans are fully equal and not allowed to be smarter, better-looking, or more physically able than anyone else. The Handicapper General's agents enforce the equality laws, forcing citizens to wear "handicaps": masks for those who are too beautiful, loud radios that disrupt thoughts inside the ears of intelligent people, and heavy weights for the strong or athletic.
(Wikipedia)

 

[Spectric]

that a lot of people are avoiding paying it. Problem is often that schemes they enter into often dont just avoid a particular band but, like the scheme Jimmy Carr was involved in, actually lead to paying no tax atall.

This is a major issue, if they closed all the loop holes and everyone paid their share of tax then the government would still see more revenue even without the 45% band. The fact they are very wealthy allows them to invest in good accountants who then use any get out clauses they can to avoid paying tax and move money into tax havens so all a sensable chancellor needs to do is shut down all these options and collect the tax due. This cannot be done by a conservative government because it would impact a lot of there backers who would be very upset if they had to pay tax so not happening.

I think that is broadly the idea behind Truss eliminating the top rate. Tax people at a level they believe is reasonable and they are less likely to try and avoid paying it, so the overall take actually increases.

Not that simple, if all the people who should be paying the 45% rate actually paid it then you would be looking at more than 2 billion. Reducing a billionares tax bill by 5% sounds like a lot to us but to them reducing it to as close to zero sounds a lot better.

Cant help wondering how many who voted for Truss are now regretting it,

Why would they regret it, ok it is political suicide in the longer term but they have delivered a real kick where it hurts to the tory Mp's who they see as being the ones who brought Boris the clown down. I doubt this lot will ever fully unite behind that gobby muppet because they never wanted her in the first place.

On the subject of immigration we all know this has to be dealt with, spending 1.5 billion a year cannot be sustainable and our crumbling services are already under severe pressure so you need a fair system like the Australian points system. Everyone knows where they stand and can clearly see if they could have enough points to be granted settlement status.

 

[DrPhill]

My mate down the pub. He works for MI5.

They make furniture don't they?

 

[Fergie 307]

Many people do just that.

People don't choose not to work - except the idle rich of course!

Ah, the great myth beloved of the left, the idle rich versus the noble poor. Both of course, like all sweeping generalisations, complete nonsense.

 

[Fergie 307]

Any evidence w

If you look at the income distribution of countries with a more equal distribution the very rich are just as rich. The rich know that wealth trickles upward.

The very rich also know (the pragmatic ones) that if the poor have more income and so become better educated and healthier they can generate more wealth which will trickle up.

The very rich know that their children do not have to work to be comfortably off and most likely their grand children if the wealth is managed.


The problem is the people below them. They have to work to maintain a comfortable life.

They can help their children too buy a house but can not pay for them to live comfortably if they do not get a good job.

If the poor compete with their children, because they are better educated, then some of their children will loose out. They have to stop the poor from becoming able to compete with their children.

Any evidence whatsoever for your last paragraph. Of course not, silly me.

 

[Fergie 307]

This is a major issue, if they closed all the loop holes and everyone paid their share of tax then the government would still see more revenue even without the 45% band. The fact they are very wealthy allows them to invest in good accountants who then use any get out clauses they can to avoid paying tax and move money into tax havens so all a sensable chancellor needs to do is shut down all these options and collect the tax due. This cannot be done by a conservative government because it would impact a lot of there backers who would be very upset if they had to pay tax so not happening.



Not that simple, if all the people who should be paying the 45% rate actually paid it then you would be looking at more than 2 billion. Reducing a billionares tax bill by 5% sounds like a lot to us but to them reducing it to as close to zero sounds a lot better.



Why would they regret it, ok it is political suicide in the longer term but they have delivered a real kick where it hurts to the tory Mp's who they see as being the ones who brought Boris the clown down. I doubt this lot will ever fully unite behind that gobby muppet because they never wanted her in the first place.

On the subject of immigration we all know this has to be dealt with, spending 1.5 billion a year cannot be sustainable and our crumbling services are already under severe pressure so you need a fair system like the Australian points system. Everyone knows where they stand and can clearly see if they could have enough points to be granted settlement status.

Tax issues not helped by large numbers of tax inspectors and investigators losing their jobs in government cutbacks. Bearing in mind that many recovered amounts of unpaid tax far in excess of their own salaries, must count as one of the more breathtakingly stupid ideas of government.

 

[ey_tony]

I consider myself well traveled, having visited many countries across the world in my time and I'd consider myself reasonably well versed in understanding other societies but I've never in all honesty come across a section of any of those societies which vilifies success quite like the tribal left of the UK. It's an appalling trait.

In virtually every country I've visited, success is applauded and even respected but it seems that for a certain element of British society, success is something to be despised and punished through punitive taxes.
I think the UK needs to have a serious rethink and decide if it wants a full on Socialist system or a Capitalist approach as what we have at present isn't working.

 

[Adam W.]

That sounds insane. How much % of income is that in DK? £12k per year on gas is inconceivable, nut maybe your typical income is £200k???? ;-)

It's a huge amount and we don't use much gas at all. At the moment we have one radiator and the UFH on in the bathroom. We've screwed it right down, but it's based on the previous years consumption and we pay on account.

It puts the £3000 pa forcast in the UK into perspective though and we'd love to pay that little and be able to heat the house.

 

[baldkev]

Why? He's got to have somewhere to live. Do you think he (and his family) should take to the streets if they can't afford the mortgage, or rents for that matter?

Why you ask... firstly to secure a mortgage using benfits in the equation is one thing, but to then moan that the free money isnt enough is going a bit far, in my opinion. He should be grateful for the help, not moaning he's disadvantaged, afterall theres a shedload of us, including me, that work and pay for our mortgages with no outside help.... and to feel entitled enough to moan that the rates have gone up is plain wrong.

 

[Jacob]

Why you ask... firstly to secure a mortgage using benfits in the equation is one thing,

You can't get a mortgage if you are unemployed and/or on benefits. OTOH you aren't expected to go homeless if you find yourself destitute and with a mortgage, or a landlord, around your neck

but to then moan that the free money isnt enough is going a bit far, in my opinion.

Benefits are pretty minimal and if prices go up benefits need to keep pace

n.., afterall theres a shedload of us, including me, that work and pay for our mortgages with no outside help....

You could end up in the same boat if you lose your job

and to feel entitled enough to moan that the rates have gone up is plain wrong.

Plain inevitable if you are living on the (shifting) breadline

I don't know why so many have it in for the poor, but it's very traditional.
Governments like it because it transfers blame from themselves to people on the edge. The right wing media help enormously.
Everybody knows the list of people they want you to hate/blame: the unemployed, the homeless, single mothers on benefits, immigrants, students, unions, Corbyn, witches, homosexuals, muslims, black people especially black women wearing hijabs, travellers, and so on - and on and on.
But these people are not responsible for the state of the economy - you'll find them at the top of the heap; in fact mostly wealthy old Etonians, for various historical reasons!

 

[Jacob]

I consider myself well traveled, having visited many countries across the world in my time and I'd consider myself reasonably well versed in understanding other societies but I've never in all honesty come across a section of any of those societies which vilifies success quite like the tribal left of the UK. It's an appalling trait.

In virtually every country I've visited, success is applauded and even respected but it seems that for a certain element of British society, success is something to be despised and punished through punitive taxes.

Success is applauded and respected here too. Taxes aren't punitive they are what keeps the system going. No person is successful without the massive state provided infrastructure which taxes pay for. Most successful people are intelligent enough to recognise this for themselves.

I think the UK needs to have a serious rethink and decide if it wants a full on Socialist system or a Capitalist approach

Neither. It's just that things need doing and paying for to keep things going. By definition the better off have to pay because they've got the money. Could draw a diagram if that would help?
Taxation is the price of civilisation.

as what we have at present isn't working.

No it isn't going too well. Childish right-wing economics brought us free market neoliberalism, brexit, now Trussonomics and whatever clown act will follow.

 

[baldkev]

You can't get a mortgage if you are unemployed and/or on benefits. OTOH you aren't expected to go homeless if you find yourself destitute and with a mortgage, or a landlord, around your neck

Benefits are pretty minimal and if prices go up benefits need to keep pace


You could end up in the same boat if you lose your job

Plain inevitable if you are living on the (shifting) breadline

I don't know why so many have it in for the poor, but it's very traditional.
Governments like it because it transfers blame from themselves to people on the edge. The right wing media help enormously.
Everybody knows the list of people they want you to hate/blame: the unemployed, the homeless, single mothers on benefits, immigrants, students, unions, Corbyn, witches, homosexuals, muslims, black people especially black women wearing hijabs, travellers, and so on - and on and on.
But these people are not responsible for the state of the economy - you'll find them at the top of the heap; in fact mostly wealthy old Etonians, for various historical reasons!

Well im not rich. In fact jacob, I'll send you my bank details and you can set a direct debit up so i can take a day off every now and then, or order chinese each week or get sky or a new iphone or take up vaping..... you wont miss it and you clearly like the idea of wealth redistribution thanks matey

 

[Jacob]

Well im not rich. In fact jacob, I'll send you my bank details and you can set a direct debit up so i can take a day off every now and then, or order chinese each week or get sky or a new iphone or take up vaping..... you wont miss it and you clearly like the idea of wealth redistribution thanks matey

If you are a bit skint you might be entitled to something. Try Benefits ?
I'm happy to pay my taxes to support the community!

 

[baldkev]

If you are a bit skint you might be entitled to something. Try Benefits ?
I'm happy to pay my taxes to support the community!

I dont want benefits, i can get enough work to keep me busy.... maybe i should look into tax avoidance

It was lloyds bank by the way, I'll accept 50 a week, that'll buy a few ciders

 

[johna.clements]

Any evidence whatsoever for your last paragraph. Of course not, silly me.

You may not believe that people do the best for their children but I do. If you want evidence of that well...

 

[ey_tony]

Success is applauded and respected here too. Taxes aren't punitive they are what keeps the system going. No person is successful without the massive state provided infrastructure which taxes pay for. Most successful people are intelligent enough to recognise this for themselves.

Neither. It's just that things need doing and paying for to keep things going. By definition the better off have to pay because they've got the money. Could draw a diagram if that would help?
Taxation is the price of civilisation.


No it isn't going too well. Childish right-wing economics brought us free market neoliberalism, brexit, now Trussonomics and whatever clown act will follow.

You do spout some left wing garbage! You must be so proud of yourself!

 

[NickDReed]

People don't choose not to work - except the idle rich of course!

Can you clarify what you actually mean by that statement?

Are you suggesting that individuals that earn, or have the potential to earn below a certain amount never make a conscious decision to not work?

 

[Fergie 307]

I consider myself well traveled, having visited many countries across the world in my time and I'd consider myself reasonably well versed in understanding other societies but I've never in all honesty come across a section of any of those societies which vilifies success quite like the tribal left of the UK. It's an appalling trait.

In virtually every country I've visited, success is applauded and even respected but it seems that for a certain element of British society, success is something to be despised and punished through punitive taxes.
I think the UK needs to have a serious rethink and decide if it wants a full on Socialist system or a Capitalist approach as what we have at present isn't working.

I has always struck me as very strange how we are happy to celebrate elitism in many areas, sport for example, and yet often have a go at those who succeed in business. And I have to agree, the hard left seem to love the class system. Anyone "working class" who, through business acumen and hard work, becomes wealthy seems to be viewed almost as a traitor to their class, and become one of the oppressors. Rather than become rich they should remain virtuously poor, or so it seems.

 

[Adam W.]

I consider myself well traveled, having visited many countries across the world in my time and I'd consider myself reasonably well versed in understanding other societies but I've never in all honesty come across a section of any of those societies which vilifies success quite like the tribal left of the UK. It's an appalling trait.

In virtually every country I've visited, success is applauded and even respected but it seems that for a certain element of British society, success is something to be despised and punished through punitive taxes.
I think the UK needs to have a serious rethink and decide if it wants a full on Socialist system or a Capitalist approach as what we have at present isn't working.

If you want taxes, I suggest you come to Denmark and experience proper taxation and its benefits first hand. Calling taxation at 45% punitive is laughable.

 

[Jacob]

You do spout some left wing garbage! You must be so proud of yourself!

Left wing garbage is what keeps civilisation going.
You only have to look at what happens when the unwoke get into power. Brexit for instance, or trussunomics.