How Many Dovetails Make A Joint ?

[dynax]

Why do people buy Ferraris, when the average speed of London traffic is now slower than the late Victorian era?

But if I had one to sell, and you wanted to buy it...

Just enjoy the irony.

get one of these, probably faster for going round London than a real one 8) https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTE2WDEwMjQ= ... Q/$_86.JPG

 

[Cheshirechappie]

.........Earlier in the thread, someone asked what the magnet was for in the Barron dovetail guide, and I suggested (a little tongue-in-cheek) that it was for winding Jacob up. Here's the proof that it works!

Look fellas, there are more ways than one to saw a dovetail. Training aids, guides, call 'em what you will are just one way, and they're NOT compulsory. If you don't want to use them, then don't. Whether the price is 'rip-off' or not is a decision for the person paying to make, and if you are a complete newcomer and your skill level is basically zero, then deskilling isn't really an issue because you don't have much yet anyway, and it could well help to build some confidence and skill (as others have attested above).

Give newbies a break. For some, better a gentle introduction and slow build of skill than chucked in the deep end, metaphorically drowning, and giving up woodworking for something else.

Ordinarily, this is fair comment, but I've re-read the thread, and can't see anyone sneering at newcomers, or guides even. It was me who asked about magnets, and it was because I was genuinely puzzled as to what it was trying to achieve, and how it could improve on the same bit of kit without a magnet. I'm only slightly clearer now. As always, the problem isn't that these sort of aids exist, it's the pressure people are under to buy stuff which A/ they could make in 5 minutes flat, and B/ makes the job appear more complex than it actually is. It is doing newbies more harm than good to give the impression that X, Y & Z bits of kit are essential, because skills A, B & C are just soooooo difficult they couldn't possibly be tackled without both a lifetime's experience and the latest expensive gizmo hand crafted by a 400 year old hermit living in cave in the Hoggar mountains. I'm guessing more people are driven away from woodworking by this relentless pressure to have more shiny things than are by skill deficits.

If you're skilled and experienced, you could indeed make stuff like the Barron guide in five minutes flat (well - maybe fifteen). If you're a newcomer and not yet built the skill and confidence, maybe not so much.

'Available to buy' is not the same as ' must buy'. There's very little pressure selling in the woodwork world compared to some others - financial services, for example. I don't think it's really fair to imply that David Barron and others supplying niche specialist tools are pressurising people just because their products are described on their websites and demonstrated at shows.

Sure, it's all a bit daunting when you're new to the craft, but isn't it much the same for any activity or walk of life? Isn't that what the books, magazines, blogs and forums are for, to demistify and provide knowledge, experience and opinions? Isn't it for people to weigh up the opinions and then make their own decisions?

 

[Jacob]

.......... Isn't that what the books, magazines, blogs and forums are for, to demistify and provide knowledge, experience and opinions? ...

Isn't that precisely what Mike G is doing? What is your point exactly?

 

[Tasky]

I'm a traditionalist.
https://www.japanesetools.com.au/produc ... -maker-jig
plus import.

I'm even more of a traditionalist, so I'd just import this chap:

Not to undervalue Master Xian Lianguang, but he's probably still cheaper than buying the jig and gives far better results!!
Would you like to know more?
Life of Guangzhou

He also makes furniture...

 

[Cheshirechappie]

.......... Isn't that what the books, magazines, blogs and forums are for, to demistify and provide knowledge, experience and opinions? ...

Isn't that precisely what Mike G is doing? What is your point exactly?

Mike was complaining about people being pressurised to buy stuff - speifically, tools he considers that they could make for themselves or that make jobs (in his opinion) more complex than they already are. I was pointing out that there is very little pressure selling in the woodwork world, and that people were free to make up their own minds about how to spend their money. To inform them, they could consult the books etc etc. But in the end it's for them to decide, not for others to tell them what they must and must not do or buy.

Hope that clarifies things. (Though no doubt you'll find something to argue about!)

 

[Jacob]

There's enormous pressure to buy stuff and do things the modern orthodox way. Basic rule of thumb is that nobody needs 90% of the stuff in a typical catalogue.
It used to be worse though - people were endlessly denigrating older tools, going on about cheapskate "thin" plane blades on Bailey planes, "bellied" chisels, insisting on flattening everything, buying alternative sharpening jigs, etc. etc. All total nonsense and attitudes have changed, not least because people do express alternative views.
Yes it's for them decide, but it helps if others express an opinion on what they should do or should buy. More the merrier!

 

[Jacob]

Good example of gear madness here https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/collections/microjig
I doubt these ludicrous and very expensive gadgets would be anywhere as effective as two £3 standard push-sticks, or two diy free ones.
They start off with an inadequate but expensive gadget and then offer dozens of expensive add-ons to make up for the basic weakness of the kit. Not unlike the sharpening jig scenario.
People need to know about rip-offs otherwise they think these things are normal and that everybody uses them.

I see they do a ridiculously expensive "tapering" jig - just the job for chop sticks and cheaper than the Bridge city offering!

 

[dynax]

i use these on some jobs, although i could do with a couple more, https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p39718 ... ut%20float

works fine and grips well,

 

[Jacob]

i use these on some jobs, although i could do with a couple more, https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p39718 ... ut%20float

works fine and grips well,

And why not? :lol:
Though personally I prefer yer standard push stick (pair of) even if dressed up as sharks ; shark-push-sticks-t112227.html
what about high heel shoes and fishnets for a push stick?

Actually those expensive grippers and other things of that ilk annoy me - they are a distraction from real safety issues and could have negative consequences if people don't look at more sensible options, or simply feel they can't afford them.