Workshop/Garage Doors and Walls

[custard]

I'm working with an architect on plans for a new workshop. The architect is recommending up and over garage doors as there's only 5.4 metres between the front of the garage/workshop and the pavement, she says the planners will object as it could mean a car parked across the pavement while the garage doors are opened. Anyone any thoughts on this? Bi-fold garage doors perhaps?

Also, the plans show the cavity walls (brick external and block internal) with a total thickness of 300mm. Does this sound right, or is there any way of pinching an extra inch or two while still retaining good insulation?

Thanks

 

[No skills]

Would the up and over be the only means of access to this space? if so I would be tempted to find another solution (like a bi-fold you mentioned) that gives you an access door of regular dimentions (obviously built into one of the sections of the main doors). IMO having to open a large up an over just to walk in and out is a pain.

I spose the wall thickness depends on what will be bearing on the wall or inner leaf? if its a single story stand alone building then maybe you could change the inner part of the wall for slim line metal studs and use some of the higher tech (but more expensive ) insulation to grab back a few inches here and there - but would the cost be worth the small amount of space you would gain?? things like this are what your paying the architecht for, thrash out some more ideas with them and make them earn their money.

FWIW and excuse the spelling!!

 

[Lons]

Hi custard (great name btw)

Why do you need an architect for a workshop build?

Anyway:-
She's specced similar walls to those required for a domestic build. Has she included full/partial cavity fill also? if not it's worth doing for little more expense as apart from the insulation gain, the cavity bats prevent mortar droppings bridging the cavity during building and therefore potential damp issues.

Personally, I would always have solid walls where possible for ease of fixing though you'll need to plaster or paint the blocks white if possible.

What about an electric roller door as an alternative ? A massive space saver apart from room needed above the door to accommodate the roll. About 12 - 15 inches dia across the whole width.
You can buy a number of designs, many insulated and some much more secure than others (especially industrial versions). Many are plastic coated and self coloured so no maintenance.

Bob

 

[paultnl]

I was just about to suggest a roller but was beaten to it. If you do go that way, make sure you have a UPS on it. My saw tripped a breaker and I was stuck for hours.

 

[Lons]

I was just about to suggest a roller but was beaten to it. If you do go that way, make sure you have a UPS on it. My saw tripped a breaker and I was stuck for hours.

Hi Paul

I thought they all came with an overide to raise / lower mechanically :? I've fitted a numer of them although all domestic garages and the ones I use have.

I'll watch out in future as it never crossed my mind it could be otherwise.

cheers

Bob

 

[knappers]

My electric roller is superb. It also came with a manual crank handle in case of power cut.

Si

 

[Benchwayze]

I would not recommend up and over doors on a workshop, unless you have plenty of space to each side of the door.
My shop is a mere 9 feet wide, and as it is really a single-car garage, there isn't much relief at the sides.

I have shelves on the walls, by the door. These shelves can only be 6" wide, because the door-stays foul the shelves, and I am forever picking up stuff that gets knocked over. I'd dismantle the shelves, to solve the problem, but I really do need the storage they provide. Just sometimes I forget and put something on them which sticks out that bit too far! :mrgreen: If I leave something propped up, too close to the door, and forget, when I close the door, there is an almighty clang, and yet another dent appears in the metal! In short, the door is a rear-end pain.

Also I either work shut up inside, a gloomy space, or have the door wide open. Not too clever, when there are so many passers-by, some of whom might be a little too interested to see what I have in there!

If you are as short on space as I am, there is also the problem of timber storage. My timber rack is in the ceiling space, but because of the up and over door, it can't be as deep as I would like it to be.

Give me double-doors, or at least bi-fold any day. Just wish I could convince SWIMBO!

HTH

John

 

[custard]

Hi custard (great name btw)

Why do you need an architect for a workshop build?

Anyway:-
She's specced similar walls to those required for a domestic build. Has she included full/partial cavity fill also? if not it's worth doing for little more expense as apart from the insulation gain, the cavity bats prevent mortar droppings bridging the cavity during building and therefore potential damp issues.

Personally, I would always have solid walls where possible for ease of fixing though you'll need to plaster or paint the blocks white if possible.

Bob

Thanks for your points. I've got an architect because there's also a house extension being built at the same time, plus the workshop/garage is quite complex. It's actually all workshop but for planning permission purposes it's a double garage with a studio, concrete floor to the garage, wooden floor to the studio. There's also an added problem as the garage will sit over the roots of a neighbour's ash tree which has a tree preservation order. Bloody nuisance these trees!

What did you mean by "cavity bats"?

 

[MickCheese]

Years ago we had a house that had a sliding door. It was actually several small doors about 2 foot wide hinged together with the last one an opener.

The doors all ran in a channel in the floor and on rollers from the roof, they each had a number of opaque windows at the top.

This did look very nice.

The problem was that you had to keep the channel very clean and clear of debris and you needed to frequently grease the overhead runner.

The benefits were that you could have just the small door open to allow fresh air and light in and only really needed to roll the whole door back to get big things in and out. The opening door opened into the garage so didn't impinge onto the roadway.

Mick

 

[goldeneyedmonkey]

I've got a common or garden up and over garage door on my 1 3/4 size garage/ workshop. I have to have a duvet and then 3 layers of carpet over the inside of the door to stop draughts and give sufficient sound and heat insulation, aaaaah, what I'd do for a decent door :roll: :roll: :roll:

Cheers _Dan

 

[Richard T]

A preservation order on an Ash? That's unusual. Is it a conservation area?

 

[custard]

A preservation order on an Ash? That's unusual. Is it a conservation area?

No, and the odd thing is that the ash is in a neighbour's garden and well away from the road, so hardly a civic ammenity, where as I had an oak on my property overhanging the pavement but without a preservation order, which I had felled to make way for the workshop.

 

[Mezzanine Rob]

What ever solution you prerfer go for it but avoid up & over doors I have one on my workshop and the storage space I lose is incredible not only at the sides but also on the ceiling where long length items would fit. Also lighting is an issue when the door is up in half my shop.

Just my two penny worth

Rob

 

[bosshogg]

You could look at the 'Durisol' system here http://www.burdensenvironmental.com/structural-building-materials when I reviewed it I was very impressed...bosshogg

Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions. A.E. (hammer)

 

[paultnl]

My electric roller is superb. It also came with a manual crank handle in case of power cut.

Si

No manual overide on mine and from the documents I got from the original house owner, they had declined the UPS to save money. Needless to say, it has one now

 

[Lons]

Thanks for your points. I've got an architect because there's also a house extension being built at the same time, plus the workshop/garage is quite complex. It's actually all workshop but for planning permission purposes it's a double garage with a studio, concrete floor to the garage, wooden floor to the studio. There's also an added problem as the garage will sit over the roots of a neighbour's ash tree which has a tree preservation order. Bloody nuisance these trees!

What did you mean by "cavity bats"?

That explains the architect. I'm a bit biased as I've had to deal with loads of them over many years and with an odd exception they've been completely useless. :roll: No offence to any forum member who is / was an architect btw

Cavity batts (or slabs) are just slabs of insulation, most commonly glass fibre, semi rigid which are fixed to the inner leaf of the cavity wall during building (partial fill).
If the full thickness of the cavity, maybe 75 or now 100mm then just held by pushing the wall ties through.

here's an example http://www.knaufinsulation.co.uk/soluti ... sulat.aspx

You can't use std loft insulation BTW as it degrades.

Bob

 

[SeanG]

+1 for sliding doors

Video of my door

 

[custard]

Cavity batts (or slabs) are just slabs of insulation, most commonly glass fibre, semi rigid which are fixed to the inner leaf of the cavity wall during building (partial fill).
If the full thickness of the cavity, maybe 75 or now 100mm then just held by pushing the wall ties through.

here's an example http://www.knaufinsulation.co.uk/soluti ... sulat.aspx

You can't use std loft insulation BTW as it degrades.

Bob

That's really useful, many thanks. So by using Kingspan, rather than traditional insulation, I could reduce the cavity from 100mm to 50mm.

 

[custard]

+1 for sliding doors

Video of my door

Very neat! If you don't mind me asking how much were those doors?

 

[Lons]

That's really useful, many thanks. So by using Kingspan, rather than traditional insulation, I could reduce the cavity from 100mm to 50mm.

Depends on how the L.A. view your extension.

A workshop is not subject to the same rules as a habitable room and therefore you can pretty much ignore the rules regarding insulation and ventilation should you so wish. It is still of course subject to general building practice if a notifiable structure as yours is.

If they view your "studio" as habitable (personally I would argue it is not), then you have to meet the current regs though you can do so by adjusting say floor and roof insulation as well as double glazing if you want to reduce wall thickness and as you say, can use a more efficient cavity insulation.
use your architect to do the calcs or ask your friendly building control officer

cheers

Bob