Working with Hardwood vs Softwood

[morpheus83uk]

Hi All,

I am starting to venture into the use of hardwood for some upcoming projects as I have up till now only used pine so I am wondering what hardwood is like to work with? My initial project with it would be some decorative edge moldings with some circular grooves cut out for glasses which the other half wants to make for a wine tasting we have arranged for the family to show off the new glasses we have for them. We have been and had a look at some hardwood today and she purchased some redwood and had the guy cut it to length. We also had a piece left over which I will use as a practice piece prior to using the proper pieces.

Since most of the work will be done by the Sander / router what sort of things do I need to look out for? Spinning the router bits faster / slower? Routing smaller depths than usual? Sanding faster / slower or just the same? Feed rates on the router table to be slower / faster? Or anything else generally when working with hardwood opposed to softwood?

Thanks

James

 

[MikeG.]

You'll probably find hardwoods rather easier to work with than pine.

 

[shed9]

You'll probably find hardwoods rather easier to work with than pine.

^ This.... hardwoods are easier to work in my opinion, especially compared to something like Pine.

 

[adidat]

If it's a red hardwood rather than redwood as is pine. Then it's probably marranti which is softer than pine and very easy to work with.

Normal hardwoods like oak beech etc are different to work with but won't break out so much like pine will when cutting.

Hardwoods put more strain on tooling and possibly burn the timber in places which can be irritating to sand out the burn marks. But yes slower and not so deep passes when routering. Also higher grits of abrasive will be needed to get a super smooth finish. As to speed with the router bit in ten years of doing this I've never not had routers running full speed so can't really comment!

Adidat

 

[morpheus83uk]

Thanks for the quick responses!

Since its my first time using a hardwood I thought I would best check. It sounds like I would need to slow the router down and make slow shallow passes. I usually have the router running at around 18,000 rpm which is number 4 on my variable speed which I think goes to 7 being 24,000 rpm. Would I need to go slower than this?

What sort of grits are we talking about I think I have up to 320 currently in the garage?

Thanks

James

 

[Losos]

James, I am definately no expert but I think you'll find that router speed is also linked to router size, in particular the diameter of the cutter. If my memory is correct larger diameter equals slower speed.

If you go on one of the router cutter manufacturers web sites you should find some data, Trend & Freud are two that I know about 'tho it's been a long time since I had to look on them.

Yes, take 'small' cuts to begin with, maybe just 1mm, once you get the 'feel' of the cutter and the wood you could increase that a tad, but it never pays to dive in with huge cuts just to get the job done quicker, especially as you are doing this at home, the last thing you want is your OH rushing in with the first aid box :lol: (You do have a first aid box in your workshop don't you :?: )

 

[morpheus83uk]

Good to know thanks Losos I didn't know it was based on the size of the cutter I have been using everything on number 4 which seems to have worked so far for bigger and smaller cutters. I do have a half inch router and the trend 35 piece starter set and have only had one bit snap but I think that was due to the Router ramping up to full speed! As it was only a 6mm cutter.

I will check out the manufacturers and see what I can find too

With regard to the first aid box yes indeed and is in handy reach if ever needed it always helps that the other half is a nurse as well

Thanks

James

 

[ED65]

It sounds like I would need to slow the router down and make slow shallow passes.

Shallower passes most definitely, hardwoods can be very much denser than pine, spruce or fir, but actually you want to keep speed up for many hardwoods to get optimal results. But there's another variable that from what I've seen often fails to be mentioned and that's feed rate.

Feed rate and router speed need to be matched to wood type, which any thorough guide to the router will cover in more detail.

What sort of grits are we talking about I think I have up to 320 currently in the garage?

Depends a bit on the hardwood (open-grained versus close-grained) but in general nothing needs to be sanded much beyond 320 and you can often successfully stop somewhere around 220. The finish type matters here as well. With an oil finish or anything else very thin more careful final sanding is a must, but if varnishing you can do less and it won't show (as long as any sanding scratches aren't cross-grain).

 

[morpheus83uk]

Thanks it will be having some clear danish oil on it and I normally sand to around 220 grit anyway before applying a finish.

So speed up the router and slow the feed rate down? It is redwood which I am using, I do have a practice piece but I just wanted to ensure I wasen't going to be burning the wood or destroying the bits before even starting! I will be using a 12.7mm bit for this project so the above would apply I take it?

Thanks

James

 

[thetyreman]

I'd recommend ash a first hardwood, not only is it cheap, it planes, sands and takes stains well, and is very knot free. I actually like redwood pine quite a lot, but you do need to keep your tools very sharp with it, when carefully selected it can look really good, I actually don't mind the odd knot, it takes paint very well if you seal the knots first with shellac and prepare it properly p.s good luck

 

[custard]

If I have a router set up for a job then it's set up...full stop. I'll run it with hardwood or softwood without making a single adjustment. In an extremely hard and brittle timber, like say African Blackwood then sure, I'd take a shallower cut, but it's hardly likely you'll be using anything like that.

The main routing difference between softwood and hardwood is that you might have to clean up your cutters and collets more frequently with resinous softwoods than with hardwoods, apart from that as far as the router's concerned it's all just wood.

As router cutters get wider then you need to slow down the speed so the peripheral bit speed remains roughly constant, and that's true in softwood or hardwood. But again, let's be realistic, as a beginner you don't want to be using wide cutters unless the router is securely mounted in a table, so for all your typical rebate bits or small moulding cutters just leave the router on full speed and crack on.

Are you experiencing scorching? If so speed up your feed rate and make a mental note to sharpen or replace the cutter. If you're not experiencing scorching then don't worry about it.

Try not to overthink this stuff, whatever you've previously achieved in pine you'll easily replicate in any common hardwood.

 

[sunnybob]

I work almost exclusively with hard woods. i have a fixed speed makita router in the table and use many different shaped and sized bits.

Shallow passes are all you need to work with hardwood.

Sanding by machine or hand is easy. i finish to 240 grit normally, or 320 when I want a very shiny finish

 

[morpheus83uk]

Thanks for all the advice its brilliant!

I do wonder though custard what you mean by

The main routing difference between softwood and hardwood is that you might have to clean up your cutters and collets more frequently

Do you just mean vac out the area being routed? Or sharpening the bits? As I have no idea how to sharpen bits thats something else I was going to post about.

As I haven't ever used hardwood before I didn't know if I needed to change anything so I figured I would just check. Always best to ask

Thanks

James

 

[custard]

A build-up of resin on the router bit means the waste won't be ejected so cleanly, which in turns leads to the bit overheating. In addition the resin can get into the collet which means you won't get the fit you need. It's much more of a problem with resinous softwoods than hardwoods. The remedy is simple, scrubbing with soap and water using an old toothbrush or a brass bristled brush. There are proprietary chemicals sold for this job, but unless you're a joinery workshop processing large quantities of pitch pine then they're just a waste of money, soap and water is all the small volume user needs.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/2014/07/ ... router-bit

You can sharpen router bits with a credit card sized diamond stone, I use the "red" version which I think is about 600 grit. You need about five or six strokes on each face (keep it balanced), cheap router bits are rarely sharp even when new. Don't over do the sharpening, after a few interim honings you'll still need to replace the bit. None of this is rocket science by the way, you've already worked out how to use a router on softwood, you'll find very little difference moving on to hardwoods.

Good luck!

 

[morpheus83uk]

Thanks for that video its very helpful and a simple enough solution to the problem. I will have a look around for a diamond stone and get one and pay close attention to the cuts of the bits to ensure they are nice and sharp.

 

[sunnybob]

Most important thing with routing hardwoods is when you get to the end of a cut. hardwoods will shatter if you hit the grain edge on. Pay careful attention to the grain run if its a final cut and do several very shallow passes if the grain is the wrong way.
But DONT feed hardwood into a table cutter from left to right! EVER!