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Woodworking shop turned half metalworking

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DennisCA

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So for almost a year, since late October last year I have not done any woodworking whatsoever. For some time my interest in metalworking has been increasing and I started with a lathe. Then I lucked into a mill of suitable size and of a brand I wanted. A Deckel FP2 is the model, german toolroom mill.

It was not in good shape when I got it. Table had seized and a tapered gib galled up, took a week to free it up, and lots of internet help and tips. I've spent all my time until last week or so on this single project. It went from this:







To this:






And with that I started reorganizing the shop. First and foremost is protecting these metalworking machines from wood dust.

First thing is to get as much outside as possible!



Moving things around are a lot easier than they used to be, because one of the things I made for the mill renovation was a modified 2 ton shop crane. I widened the legs so it'll go around a euro pallet, then I also made low profile half-length legs that allow me to maneuver in the shop much better. It's been GOLD.



I am moving my woodworking bench to the garage door


My bandsaw gets moved to the other side of the room and turned around, no problem with my trusty crane and two helpers:





Then the metal lathe gets moved.




The trick is to doing it safely is to only lift it so it doesn't really lift from the air, but enough that it becomes easy to move it with a crow bad. It takes longer but is safer.

On position next to the mill, the Deckel mill is operated from the side, so I can operate both machines from the same side.




With the metalworking machines in place I moved some furniture around, the welding bench and my all-purpose dirty as heck bench gets moved into the small room next to the mill, where the lathe used to sit. My shop is an L-shape and maybe 34 m2 or so. Still the welder will be mobile so I can roll it outside for anything that is not TIG welding.

And then I proceed to make a new tool wall for my hand tools, I use a piece of 12mm plywood and I paint it white.





Then I move the dust collector, this project stalled out a while ago too. Homemade Pentz cyclone.




Then with the final piece moved it's time to put up the separation between the metalworking and wood working section, a whole lot of PVC sheeting:





So far I think this is working really well. So well in fact the air and temperature of the two areas differ noticeably. I think I will need to get two heaters come winter.

And now I am finally getting back to working on the cyclone, starting with a filter box. The small hole is 160mm and it will went outside. I will make this a feature you can turn on or off depending on the weather, but venting outside saves the filters, they have a total of 22 m2 filter area.



And some blast gates.




And while I am at it I used up some scrap to make tool holders for the metal side too




So that's my shop for the moment. I think I need some more shots that show the overall layout...
 

Inspector

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I only see one glaring mistake and that is not closing in the open car port for the shop.

Great score on the Deckel, dirty or otherwise. Beats my RF-45 clone all to.. you know.

The filters for the dust collector you said were 22 m2 area. Is that for both or each? If for both it is a little on the small side. How will you switch from filters to dumping outside? Two of the 160mm openings going outside would reduce back pressure and increase the flow. How big is the motor and impeller. Sorry about all the DC questions. It's good to see someone going for broke here.

I've been using an engine crane for over 25 years. Great things to have.

Pete
 

DennisCA

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Yes the 22 m2 area is for both filters. I went by others recommendations for the area though later speaking to Pentz via email he said I should have gone for double. I suppose I will do that once these filters are worn out. This is why I decided to vent outside as much as possible, to spare the filters, not sure the current fan is as powerful either. I had a bigger homemade impeller and 5hp motor when I talked to Pentz so this old commercial 3HP unit has less air flow. The homemade one was just too big and heavy I thought, and too loud.

I thought a single 160mm pipe would be enough since the inlets are all 160mm, so same size in and out + all the restrictions on the inlet side when all the pipes are up. I have a blast gate that I will open or close on the filter box, it's a different design to be 100% sealed, it will have two different "shutters" or whatever you call them in english that you replace entirely when opening or closing, thus allowing for a total seal. Not really gonna be fast to swap between the two modes, but I doubt I will change it more than a few times per year.

I need the car port for the winter, when the snow gets here it looks like this, don't like digging my car out:
 

Inspector

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Dennis I didn't realize you live in Finland. In Saskatchewan Canada myself. Our cars go into a heated garage in the winter because of the -40C or lower temperatures, not so much because of the snow. This time of year I'll put them in if the thunderclouds are really big and black in case of hail. Awoke with a start this morning to lighting and thunder overhead. :shock:

If the out is bigger than in you will get better airflow but as your installation is compact so you should be okay. Life keeps getting in the way of my CV Max install.

Pete
 

DennisCA

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I think in the old forum software ones location could be seen under ones name. Things are different now.

The cold is not a problem for us, a block heater takes care of that.
 

Ttrees

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Those look like good workspaces. :)
I for one, would love to see you will do a WIP on your cyclone adventures, been meaning to get onto that someday.

Whatcha goin makin with the engineering stuff Dennis?

Tom
 

Trevanion

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Oh dear, you've been bitten by both bugs :lol:

I know how it feels. At least you have the gear to fix pretty much anything now. That mill looks like a good one, especially after being spruced up a bit.
 

DennisCA

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I've been a bit slow on answers, turned out not everything is A-OK with the mill. Gear box is missing speeds. I have drained it and opened it, currently investigating, it's kinda taking most of my brain power... Nothing wrong with the gears that I can see, suspect it's a timing issue in the controls that is on the cover, guided by a clock work mechanism that moves the gears into various positions.
 

TFrench

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Very nice shop - I've been following your FP2 build on practical machinist.
 

flying haggis

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in the pic of the cyclone that must be one hell of an impact driver to need a 415V red plug.....

OK i shall fetch my coat and leave..
 

DennisCA

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Ttrees":yf1k01qq said:
Those look like good workspaces. :)
I for one, would love to see you will do a WIP on your cyclone adventures, been meaning to get onto that someday.

Whatcha goin makin with the engineering stuff Dennis?

Tom
Don't really have much to show for the cyclone, I followed Pentz instructions on his site. Only found these two images:





As for the metalworking stuff, I'll make more tools to start with. Then, who knows?
 

Ttrees

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Dennis, I disagree.
That sounds fascinating to me. 8)
I think a 3hp motor should be adequate for me too, for the reasons you mentioned.
As most of the Pentz design cyclones are 5hp, I believe you have to match the cone with the impeller, and all that jazz.
Too many questions I have about this yet, I won't haggle you for details, as I guess your only getting back in action now after your workshop overhaul.
Maybe when you have time in the winter, a write up would make great reading.

Makin more tools... sounds a thoroughly enjoyable endeavour :D
More power to your elbow!

Thanks for showin us around
Tom
 

DennisCA

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DennisCA":2z50hoi8 said:
I've been a bit slow on answers, turned out not everything is A-OK with the mill. Gear box is missing speeds. I have drained it and opened it, currently investigating, it's kinda taking most of my brain power... Nothing wrong with the gears that I can see, suspect it's a timing issue in the controls that is on the cover, guided by a clock work mechanism that moves the gears into various positions.
So this turned out to be a bigger issue than I thought. Not a timing mechanism issue at all... What had happened was that the mill had probably crashed and the force transmitted back through the spindle to the gear box was so great that it cut the key "clean" off and made the gear spin freely on the shaft.

In doing so it gouged up material and locked the gear in place. I spent two months trying to get it out.





I had nearly no room or access to work at it, which made it really difficult. And I could not simply go caveman on it or I would risk breaking the cast iron rib in the center of the machine.

I made up these small pushers from M8 bolts, but them between the 2nd and 3rd gear and started trying to open it up





I kept going back and forth, I made a pusher to push the gears back, then out again:




Eventually I had made a custom made pusher that did not put strain on the cast iron rib:




It was still too weak to get it out! I even drilled open the shaft from the front to expose the key slot and dug parts of the key out from the front.



In desperation I tried a suggestion I was given and I injected a special kind of lapping fluid (safe to use because it degrades until it stops cutting) and I got it in under the gear and I started rotating the shaft by hand while pushing forward. Eventually I used the motor in burst to rotate it. After some time with that I kept getting thin slivers of metal out from the 3rd gear.

Then I tried again with the pusher above and by god this time it moved! I got the shaft out. It's not pretty after all the force I applied to it to get it out...





After that I also removed the lower gearbox shaft because every part needs a good cleaning now, so much metal particulate in the gearbox after all this work, and grinding dust:




 

DennisCA

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My next step is repairing the shaft and getting things back in working order.

I was first asking local shops if they were capable of spray welding and I had several leads but it petered out, one shop offered to mig weld it and turn it down for 300 euros, but I think MIG welding might damage the hardening on the rest of the shaft. In that case maybe I should have tried TIG welding which I can do myself, very very slowly and letting it cool down before continuing.

I had this plan drawn up in CAD, to make a two part shaft, remove the damaged portion and insert a new one via a left hand thread, the shaft only turns in one direction and that would make it self locking. That + the strongest loctite (272) and the fact that the join happens right where it's supported by a bearing should make this a workable solution.



Still in the end I decided to try and get away the the absolute minimum repair, I chucked up the shaft in the lathe and I turned away the broken thread. I also took a very shallow cut on the shaft and it mics consistently to 26.98mm except where there are circular gouges, nominal dimension is 27mm.



I have also bought a 27mm reamer and reamed the gears and ater these operations I have a nice slip fit on the shaft. Next I drilled and threaded the shaft for a left hand thread and I made a new oversize part that I fitted with loctite. I wasn't able to get my hands on 272 but I hope 2701 is good enough here, this part will not really be under any strain.





Now I just need to turn the new features on this piece. Then my next step is to enlarge the slot to 6mm, and make it 2mm deeper (to keep overall height constant so the bearing can slip over). This will clean up the slot in the shaft,

I will also broach the gear key slots to 6mm as well, this will also fix some damage I discovered that I did to one side of the slots. And it will make the whole setup stronger.
 

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