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Digit

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The saga continues!
I've been buying the parts from our local specialist company with the understanding that they will sign off the job on completion, subject to building regs etc.
Met their HETAS engineer this morning, oh what fun! First we argued over the legal requirement for a liner then I was faced with my favourite killer, 'You can't do that!'
I followed up with, 'Why not?'
'Because you can't.'
Methinks I need another HETAS engineer! :lol:
Meantime the gas boiler's packed up. British Gas engineer truns up, BG engineer leaves.
Following day new BG engineer turns up, wrong parts!
Next day BG engineer turns up, 'your out of gas!'
'No we're not, filled up last week, check gauge.'
'Well there's no gas supply.'
Call in gas supply engineer, checks at test point, gas.
BG gas fitter due tomorrow. We'll see.

Roy.
 

EddieJ

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I had a similar issue last year when I installed two woodburners at home. It is complete b****x to say "you can't"

The only stipulation is that work is carried out by "a competent person" I considered myself competent and did both installations my self. All work was carried out along with other building works which were under building control. When finished all work including the woodburners were duly signed off.
 

henton49er

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EddieJ,

You may consider yourself competant; that is not the issue. When you come to sell your house (or claim on your insurance for a house fire come to that), will you be able to provide a certificate to confirm that the woodburner installations were carried out in accordance with HETAS requirements? If you can't, I, for one, would not buy your house without a further inspection and rectification of any issues at your cost in the first instance, and your insurers may chose not to pay out in the second. It's your call.

Those are the main reasons, to me, to go for a HETAS qualified installer and to therefore have the "right" certificate. Similar to the the need to be able to prove the use of a qualified electrician for all wiring changes.

Mike.
 

Digit

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This awkward sod refused to sign off the job simply because I'm not doing the job the way he does.
I tried to explain that phyical restraints over which I have no control makes that impossible. I pointed out that basiclly, and he agreed, HETAS regs are to ensure a gas tight run from fire box the atmosphere.
The reason I can't conform to his working practise is the existance of a reinforced concrete slab above the opening.
He informed me that he had been doing this job for 25 yrs etc, then completely ruined the whole thing by insisting that I enlarge the opening in the slab, suggesting that I hire a Kango and cut the councrete away.
HETAS qualified he may well be, but the Building Reg concerning exposure to heat of steel reinforcing bars in concrete appear to be a closed book to him.
I shall trade elsewhere I'm afraid!
You have missed the point Mike, I had his agreement to inspect and sign off, I will find another HETAS engineer.

Roy.
 

Digit

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I haven't read thatparticular link Eddie, but I have certainly read much on the subject. One problem that I have met is every expert interprets things differently.
An example, I intend rendering the sides of the opening, I've spoken to HETAS chaps, who basically don't know, they leave that to brickies, various forums etc, and I can state with absolute authority that I am no wiser now than when I started!
The daft part of the disagreement with the HETAS chap who was going to sign it off is that he in no manner suggested that what I am doing contravenes HETAS. It's just not the way he would do it!
Left to him I would have to demolish the whole chimney and start again!
I am lining the chimney to avoid the problems with sweeping, the local chap insists that it is a legal requirement, the suppliers of the stove state catergorically that it is not!
Pass!

Roy.
 

Digit

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What is it they say Rog, 'You can not be serious!'

"Where a hearth, fireplace (including a flue box), flue or chimney is provided or extended (including cases where a flue is provided as part of the refurbishment work), information essential to the correct application and use of these facilities should be permanently posted in the building. A way of meeting this requirement would be to provide a notice plate conveying the following information:

a) the location of the hearth, fireplace (or flue box) or the location of the beginning of the flue;
b) the category of the flue and generic types of appliance that can be safely accommodated;
c) the type and size of the flue (or its liner if it has been relined) and the manufacturers name;
d) the installation date;"


Roy.
 

Benchwayze

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henton49er":3tsydjn3 said:
EddieJ,

You may consider yourself competant; that is not the issue. When you come to sell your house (or claim on your insurance for a house fire come to that), will you be able to provide a certificate to confirm that the woodburner installations were carried out in accordance with HETAS requirements? If you can't, I, for one, would not buy your house without a further inspection and rectification of any issues at your cost in the first instance, and your insurers may chose not to pay out in the second. It's your call.

Those are the main reasons, to me, to go for a HETAS qualified installer and to therefore have the "right" certificate. Similar to the the need to be able to prove the use of a qualified electrician for all wiring changes.

Mike.
It is my understanding that 'HIP's have been quashed by the Coalition. Clearly the HIP mentality still thrives, even though it's back to as it should be; as it was when I bought my 'drum'. Caveat Emptor. In other words Get thyself a surveyor's report, and don't rely solely on the Mortgage Company's examination.

In Eddie's case, as the job was signed off by a building inspector, Eddie would have proof that he is competent. So, he would doubtless find another buyer.
John 8)
 

studders

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All these regulations were supposedly introduced to eliminate the cowboys and silly person diyers, and I support that but, they all seem to go further than that and 'appear' to evolve into revenue generating rules and 'exclusive rights' to do the work for selected trade bodies and, that annoys me as someone who, as time has shown, is competent enough and sensible enough to do things properly.
I don't have certificates to say I'm competent to do this or that but having seen some of the work of those who do I wonder at their real value?
 

Digit

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Well Steve as I have been described on here as 'pedantic' i take the jaundiced view that with electrics if I don't cause a fire, don't cause anyone to have a shock, then I'm 'competant!
Same with heating and plumbing etc. :twisted:

Roy.
 

studders

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Digit":1tkrfxda said:
with electrics if I don't cause a fire, don't cause anyone to have a shock, then I'm 'competant!


Roy.
Prezactly my point Roy. Supposedly 'competent' tradesmen do make mistakes, as I've found out many times over the years. Just as having a driving license doesn't make a good driver, having a bit of paper saying they're competent doesn't always mean someone is; and of course the reverse is also true.
 

Digit

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Supposedly 'competent' tradesmen do make mistakes,
I have this distinct recollection of a machine in several dozen pieces before I remembered to check the fuse! :oops:

But my pet hate is modern electronics, pass me something electronic and I guarantee it will play up!
Must be my magnetic personality! :lol:

Roy.
 

EddieJ

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Digit":1v3cus1m said:
What is it they say Rog, 'You can not be serious!'

"Where a hearth, fireplace (including a flue box), flue or chimney is provided or extended (including cases where a flue is provided as part of the refurbishment work), information essential to the correct application and use of these facilities should be permanently posted in the building. A way of meeting this requirement would be to provide a notice plate conveying the following information:

a) the location of the hearth, fireplace (or flue box) or the location of the beginning of the flue;
b) the category of the flue and generic types of appliance that can be safely accommodated;
c) the type and size of the flue (or its liner if it has been relined) and the manufacturers name;
d) the installation date;"


Roy.

Don't worry Roy, it isn't as bad as it sounds. The tags cost me about £1.00 and I filled them out and placed them inside the electricity meter box on the outside wall. In some respects this isn't a bad thing to have posted up, as it would in the dreaded event of a fire, help the fire brigade to establish what they are perhaps up against.

Thanks for your reply John.

The building inspector was very thorough and wanted to see very detail about materials used, and the full specs for the two woodburners. He pulled me on the depth of the hearth, which I then extended before he completion notice was issued. The inspector had a very valid point over the size of it, and whilst it was inconvenient at the time, extending it has already proved to have been needed when a piece of wood fell out.

As an aside to fires etc. I learnt a very valuable lesson a number of years ago at our last house. We had an inglenook fire place and I had installed heat/fireproof electric cable up under the oak beam. What I hadn't banked on, was that whilst the cable was fine with the heat, the clips weren't. They all melted, which in turn exposed the nail on each clip and te potential for it to melt into the cable. It didn't, but it made me think about it a bit.
 

Digit

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I fully appreciate the intentions Eddie, I've seen some appalling home electrics in my time, but once again it's a case of we are all idiots because of that, and what makes me fume is that those who are dangerous are damned unlikely to obey the laws anyway!

Roy.
 

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