Who says Veritas Planes look Utilitarian?

[Handworkfan]

I thought I'd post this because, in a different thread, it was mentioned that Veritas planes have been criticised as being 'utilitarian looking'.
There are one of two things about this that intrigue me so I thought I'd enquire further.
My first response was that I actually regard the design of Veritas bench planes as aesthetically very appealing. The combination of the three Bs - brass, black and bubinga - is highly attractive and I always enjoy seeing them on the bench or with the tool cabinet door open.
And then I also started to wonder why this charge should be levelled at Veritas, any more than LN or Clifton - especially the latter.
I have planes by all three makers in my kit, including the Veritas large shoulder plane that I reviewed a while ago in WPP. Now there's an example of really intelligent innovation - the downturned lever-cap, finger hole, swivelling knobs and blade-centring screws - Veritas at their terrific best! And again, the combination of the thee Bs makes it look positively beautiful.
It's a few days now since I read that reported criticism, and I'm still wondering how on earth it ever came about.
Even if it were true, I'd still buy them because at the end of the day a tool's there to be used and good looks are a bonus - but I just don't get it!
Can anybody shed any light?

 

[Philly]

H
To my eye the Veritas planes are an "acquired taste". This is no knock on their performance, just a visual thing.
I think the reason for this is simple - other makers base their planes on traditional designs. This instantly makes them comfortable to the eye, and a coat of paint (think british racing green) or polished bits and pieces, gives them a desirable look.
But the Veritas planes are designed in a different way - the Veritas mission plan is "Innovation". The planes are designed from the ground up, and the designers question all the conventions to come up with unique looking designs.
So, by bringing out the Premium range of planes that showcase their design skills from an aesthetic as well as performance point of view, can only enhance their reputation as truly innovative toolmakers.
Cheers
Philly

 

[Vann]

I don't own an LN, and the LV I do own is still in transit from Canada, so I'm basing these comments mostly on posts I've read here and elsewhere.

Can I suggest it's because LN in particular, and Clifton to a large extent, produce planes that have a high level of engineering quality, finish quality and traditional looks. LV, on the other hand, have rougher cast surfaces and untraditional looks because they concentrate their efforts on engineering quality and function. So, because LV products are not always what a traditional woodworker expects (lets face it: both the bedrock shape of the LN plane and the bailey shape of the Clifton plane have been around for 100 years plus) the LV planes can initially look strange and hence be labelled "utilitarian".

It took a long time before I became accustomed to the very "different" look of the LAJ and became comfortable enough with it to order one. And I still hanker for a Clifton, at least partly for the traditional looks.

Cheers, Vann.

edit: Or what Philly said (he beat me to it)

 

[Ironballs]

It is partly down to the shinyness, we are like magpies to an extent and our eyes will always be turned by something that looks shiny and pretty. LN planes fall squarely into this camp and the shinyness also looks expensive and high quality.

I have the LV BUS and as a plane it cannot be faulted, works brilliantly. However, recently got another plane and the choice came down to almost identical LV and LN planes and I have to admit that I went for the LN in the end, the deciding factor being the bronze and general shinyness

 

[Waka]

The only problem I have with the new shiny block plane is that it is classed as the Premium Range.
Now to all us folks that have and use Veritas planes its not a problem., but by calling something Premium range automatically indicates that the slightly cheaper planes and inferior.
We of course know that it is the performance of the plane not the looks that count. But to somebody new to the Veritas range it could be a little confusing.

Shall I get me coat?

 

[Rob Lee]

The only problem I have with the new shiny block plane is that it is classed as the Premium Range.
Now to all us folks that have and use Veritas planes its not a problem., but by calling something Premium range automatically indicates that the slightly cheaper planes and inferior.
We of course know that it is the performance of the plane not the looks that count. But to somebody new to the Veritas range it could be a little confusing.

Shall I get me coat?

Hi Waka -

Nothing wrong with that observation.... and one we hope to change...

The premium label is intended to refer to material, and not necessarily price. That's one of the reasons we let out two planes at the same time, with identical specs, but with different materials. It's also why we've gone with a numbering system that telegraphs material.

The only strictly "unnecessary" component of the NX60 is the polishing...which did add some cost for appearances sake.

As for the utilitarian - I'd agree with respect to the bevel-down bench planes - but I think our later designs have developed a unique design language. Looking at the small plough and the skews, I can see tremendous differences from earlier efforts.

From where I sit - I can only see things getting better....

Cheers -

Rob
(not about to shift his seat... :lol: )

 

[Mr Ed]

So if (purely hypothetical of course :wink: ) one was to produce more planes in this premium material you speak of, what might those be?

Cheers, Ed.

(no harm in asking, although knowing Rob I have just wasted 10 seconds of my life typing this...! :lol: )

 

[Rob Lee]

So if (purely hypothetical of course :wink: ) one was to produce more planes in this premium material you speak of, what might those be?

Cheers, Ed.

(no harm in asking, although knowing Rob I have just wasted 10 seconds of my life typing this...! :lol: )

Hi Ed -

You're spot on... :lol:

We've designed at least a dozen already - including planes we won't make. All done to develope the design language, and to ensure that the features, finishes, and design elements scale properly.

I'm not sure if we'll do a smooth or a jack next...or even something else...

Much depends as well on the regular line - still got rent to pay, in a tough economy. And lots coming there - small scraping plane, new shoulders, skew blocks, 4-5 smaller planes.... and the mystery new one (that's a while off yet)...

Cheers -

Rob
(who had to give you something for the 10 seconds....)

 

[Mr Ed]

Its interesting how much discussion we have had recently (me included) about what tools look like, rather than just how they perform.

I wonder if this is because we take performance for granted with the likes of LN and LV, or if we are all drawn into the increased levels of availability of nice shiny things. Do we use the high levels of performance of these tools as a self justification for 'needing' to own them? (I know I've been there a time or two!)

Cheers, Ed

 

[Handworkfan]

[Much depends as well on the regular line - still got rent to pay, in a tough economy. And lots coming there - small scraping plane, new shoulders, skew blocks, 4-5 smaller planes.... and the mystery new one (that's a while off yet)...

Cheers -

Rob
(who had to give you something for the 10 seconds....)

So, rob, I don't of course expect you to give anything away in your reply, but I'd be very happy if one of those under consideration were a compass plane - at present there's a bsolutely nothing so far as I can see in the quality end of the market and you might be able to steal a march on those other unmentionable names. :lol:

 

[TrimTheKing]

For what it's worth, I love the style and, to quote Rob, the "design language" of the existing range of planes, and it's for this very reason that I have gone the other way to Ironballs and given the same conundrum will usually pick the Veritas over an LN.

I do love the look of the LN and Clifton with their 'traditional' styling, and will definitely buy a Clifton at some point (love the British Racing green, and got to support good strong British craftsmanship) but the very fact that the Veritas look so different but perform magnificently has been enough to make my mind up 6 times so far, and no doubt more as the years go by....

Cheers

Mark

 

[Corset]

All the decent planes I have ever bought have been veritas. I therefore feel i have grown to see them as the norm and therefore attractive. I feel form often follows function and these are very functional.
I have been climbing for 17years and worn the same brand of rock boot for 12years. If i put anything else on it feels weird. I think veritas have done the same thing to me.
Plus I like the idea that people rethink the accepted. So cheers Rob.
I will not be buying any grant planes by the way.
Owen

 

[marcus]

I love using Veritas tools and don't care what they look like because they work so well Anyway I like the utilitarian slightly modern look - reminds me that I live in 2008 and encourages me to make things relevant to the times I'm living in rather than trying to re-live the 'glorious' past.

In fact I was a little disappointed to see the new shiny block plane (sorry Rob!), pretty though it is, because I wanted to see Veritas continuing to focus their resources into innovating in the area of function, designing tools that work well at a reasonable price point. There are lots more old designs out there begging for the "Veritas treatment" and I would be sad if less of them were done because resources were being used on developing the premium range.

I recently bought the Veritas small plough and am in awe of the job that was done on that. In terms of usability it completely blows the old Record I was using away, and has already saved me a load of time. It won't be that long before it pays for itself. As a result I have gone against all my principles of only getting tools when I absolutely have to and have ordered the skew rebate. The Stanleys are going on ebay..... More please!

Cheers

Marcus

 

[Handworkfan]

In fact I was a little disappointed to see the new shiny block plane (sorry Rob!), pretty though it is, because I wanted to see Veritas continuing to focus their resources into innovating in the area of function, designing tools that work well at a reasonable price point. There are lots more old designs out there begging for the "Veritas treatment" and I would be sad if less of them were done because resources were being used on developing the premium range.

Marcus

=D> Another critical friend!
Seriously, I do accept that many customers obviously wanted and like the new plane - I'm just glad that Rob says the old emphasis has not been lost.

 

[woodbloke]

There are lots more old designs out there begging for the "Veritas treatment"

The one that springs immediately to mind is a Veritas version of the old Record compass plane...that would be worth seeing - Rob

 

[Handworkfan]

There are lots more old designs out there begging for the "Veritas treatment"

The one that springs immediately to mind is a Veritas version of the old Record compass plane...that would be worth seeing - Rob

So that's two of us singing from the same song-sheet - the lack of a good compass plane must surely be a gap in the market - the only one I know of is Kunz, and I'm far from impressed with it.

You make it, Rob L - we'll buy it!

 

[Paul Chapman]

I'd buy a Veritas compass plane as well, if it was available.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[TrimTheKing]

I'd buy a Veritas compass plane as well, if it was available.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Me too, it would be very 8)

Cheers

Mark

 

[Smudger]

What would you two use the compass planes for? Circular table tops? Curved legs? As a sort of controlled spokeshave?

I know someone with a Record version, and he uses it about once every five years! (But he wouldn't give it up...)

 

[Paul Chapman]

What would you two use the compass planes for? Circular table tops? Curved legs? As a sort of controlled spokeshave?

I know someone with a Record version, and he uses it about once every five years! (But he wouldn't give it up...)

Yes, that sort of thing, Dick. Situations where a spokeshave doesn't have enough heft. I agree that it's probably a tool that you wouldn't use very often but when you need one, you need one.

Cheers :wink:

Paul