who has veritas bevel up smoother or low angle smoother?

[dann]

Im after some thoughts on bevel up and low angle smoothers, yes i have both no 4 and 41/2 smoothers but i really fancy a veritas having got the low angle block plane and being so impressed with it......

 

[Vann]

The BUS has a very good reputation. And if you get hooked on bevel-up planes, it shares it's iron with the LAJ* and BUJ.

*another plane with a very good reputation.

The LAS is on it's own when it comes to the size of the iron.

But then it depends on what you're hoping to work on, to choose a plane of the size you're likely to need.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Harbo]

I have the BU Smoother, Jack and Jointer - they all take the same blades.
Excellent planes, no messing about with them or needing fettling - they work wonderfully well.
Buy them and your fixed for life.

Rod

 

[Jacob]

There's no particular advantage in the low angle - the effective cutting angle is going to be much the same as a bevel down plane.
The Stanley SW 4 is a good alternative - 1/3rd of the price, cuts just as well but not quite as pretty.

 

[bugbear]

Im after some thoughts on bevel up and low angle smoothers, yes i have both no 4 and 41/2 smoothers but i really fancy a veritas having got the low angle block plane and being so impressed with it......

Here's a fairly detailed and careful review (sadly un-dated) from Derek Cohen.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/toolreview ... other.html

BugBear

 

[Richard T]

I have the Veritas low angle 'smoother'.

It is a mitre plane. Great for mitres, end grain, taking paper thin shavings to finish - in short it is the best finishing plane I have. The blade can be left dead square ( no camber) and it can be trusted to perform. A good buy even at the price they are now; mine cost £150 a few years ago ....

 

[cagenuts]

There's no particular advantage in the low angle - the effective cutting angle is going to be much the same as a bevel down plane.

Do you actually know anything about low angle bench planes?

To the OP, the advantage of the bevel up bench planes is the ability to take blades with varying degrees of bevel. The bevel-up smoother is sized like a 4-1/2 and comes standard with a 38 degree blade which equates to a 50 degree angle of attack (york pitch). As mentioned before, the blades are interchangeable with the jointer, jack and new shooting plane.

The low angle smoothing plane has parallel sides so this can be used as a shooting plane but does not share the blade with any other bench plane.

Overall whichever model you choose, there is the option of purchasing the toothed, 25, 38 and 50 degree blades to give you a most versatile and beautiful plane.

 

[Jacob]

There's no particular advantage in the low angle - the effective cutting angle is going to be much the same as a bevel down plane.

Do you actually know anything about low angle bench planes?

To the OP, the advantage of the bevel up bench planes is the ability to take blades with varying degrees of bevel. ........

You can put a "back" bevel on a bevel down plane for just the same effect.

 

[bugbear]

There's no particular advantage in the low angle - the effective cutting angle is going to be much the same as a bevel down plane.

Do you actually know anything about low angle bench planes?

To the OP, the advantage of the bevel up bench planes is the ability to take blades with varying degrees of bevel. ........

You can put a "back" bevel on a bevel down plane for just the same effect.

That only effects EP (which may be enough improvement in some circumstances, see the "oak" thread). In a BU plane the force relationship between the blade and the bed is quite different, due to the angle between the bed and the cutting forces.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

It may well be, but what effect this has on performance is not clear.

 

[Corneel]

That interests me too. What is the difference in force relationship? Bearing in mind that in both cases the blade is pretty rigidly attached to the plane. The only difference I can see is the extra support of the iron closer to the edge. But the bevel down plane has a chipbreaker, which gives support even closer to the edge. It is completely possible of course that I am overlooking something, but as yet I don't see a different power vector.

 

[Jacob]

It'd take some very thorough experimentation to show a difference as in practice there appears to be none. Stanley SW4, LVLA smoother, Clifton 4 all perform very similarly in my experience. Which means the Stanley is the winner as it is 1/3 of the price of the others!

NB they are all heavy bug|gers - it's much nicer to use a normal plane.

 

[dann]

I really like heavy planes and the momentum that comes with them.

 

[MIGNAL]

I also have the Stanley SW. It really is HEAVY. Perhaps too much so. I reserve it for the final finishing of gnarly or difficult timbers, on which it performs as good as anything out there. I wouldn't want to use it for much more than 10 minutes at a time though. For your average density, well behaved hardwood a standard lighter weight Stanley/Record is a better option IMO.

 

[Jacob]

I really like heavy planes and the momentum that comes with them.

It doesn't though- the momentum comes from you. What comes with the plane is inertia. More effort to shift the thing however you look at it.

Or to put it another way - if there was any advantage in weight people would have added it e.g. lead inserts in a woody. Has anybody ever done this? I doubt it.

 

[dann]

I really like heavy planes and the momentum that comes with them.

It doesn't though- the momentum comes from you. What comes with the plane is inertia. More effort to shift the thing however you look at it.

Or to put it another way - if there was any advantage in weight people would have added it e.g. lead inserts in a woody. Has anybody ever done this? I doubt it.

Haha yeah that's what I mean.
Wood butcher not physicist (hammer)

 

[Corneel]

Everybody has of course been thinking long and hard about the difference between bu and bd, but couldn't find a reason why they would cut fundamentally different at similar cutting angles. There are other differences of course like centre of gravity, handle position and all kind of practical differences, but they do cut the same.

 

[Jacob]

The biggest difference is that the BU planes are much easier to set up. Not quite idiot proof (you still have to sharpen a very thick blade :shock: ) but usually can be relied upon to work out of the box. Hence the popularity especially with beginners.

 

[Peter Sefton]

The BU do have a different feel to them, they are not as heavy as standard bench planes mainly due to the lack of the frog. I do like to swap and changer between my BU and BD planes I use the BD for more timber prep and my BU for fine finishing particularly if the high angle is required for interlocked grain. I do have a back bevel set up in my Clifton no 5 Jack for working tricky timbers but I find students and beginners find it difficult to maintain a small back bevel.
I had all the planes out on the bench yesterday for a short course I am running to show the guys, I find the students buy which ever feels most comfortable in their hand and once that are either Clifton or Veritas fans that's the way they tend to stay.
Both are great planes, Dann if you need any help with your choice of Veritas smoother please do PM or call cheers Peter

 

[Jacob]

Do you offer the Stanley SW 4 Peter? It's a serious contender and a third of the price!